Revenue to target pensioners on higher incomes

I agree. It's still a state funded pension though the state is dipping its hand into current public sector employees pockets to make sure that said retirees don't take any pain.
Retired Public servants have taken cuts as well. This week's exercise by Revenue was a bit heavy handed and a blunt instrument, causing unnecessary distress to a lot of older people who are, in fact, tax compliant.

Isn't it time the Revenue and Department of Social Protection were amalgamated?
 
I agree. It's still a state funded pension though the state is dipping its hand into current public sector employees pockets to make sure that said retirees don't take any pain.
.

Weren't Public Sector pensions over 12,000 per annum cut in 2011's budget - many PS pensioners will therefore have experienced financial pain.

The range of cuts were 6% , 9% & 12% - pretty painful I would have thought ?
 
Small contribution from personal experience. It looks from the letter as if my 90 year old dementia suffering Mum is regarded as non-compliant - however the revenue already knew about her private Irish Life pension and her SW widow's pension and had both taken into account in her tax credit for ever.....The only change looks like they may have underestimated the state pension by a few bob giving rise to a euro or two less on her tax credit. Mind you I find the while thing rather confusing as the tax system is way too complex for me since they moved to tax credits.

I suspect she is not alone and we are not talking about 1,000's of OAPs who thought they shouldn't pay tax on SW pension if they had private one but rather that Revenue got the amount of the SW pension slightly wrong.
 
i think what people are complaining about here is not that some pensioners owe tax. My main complaint is that out of the blue on 5 January 2012 elderly people like my 85 year old, widowed, mum in law got a letter implying she dishonestly withheld information from revenue. She gets state widows contributary pension and a private pension of 3k euro per annum, total income about 15k total per annum. On Friday morning she got this notice in the post and worried herself sick all day, she thought she was the only one who got the letter.

Of course she does not owe tax, but she still got the notice, I think a fishing exercise of anyone who: 1) is getting state and a private pension, 2) has not had contact with the revenue for many years.

Sneaky? nasty... no leaks ? no notice? many many old people who never owed anyone a penny in their lives, were terrified. A leak to either radio or newspapers or a proper notice in newspapers would have been sufficient ....shame on the revenue. Shame on our new government.
 
What about the 100,000 pensioners who have been paying their correct Tax over the past years.
Will we now get it back and just start in 2012?
All arrears should be paid.
 
What about the 100,000 pensioners who have been paying their correct Tax over the past years.
Will we now get it back and just start in 2012?
All arrears should be paid.

A member of my family who is self employed and is in receipt of OAP.
He fills out an 11E form every year and includes his self employement income, OAP and small private pension yet he received one of these letters saying that he hadn't told revenue about his OAP. It is great that Social Welfare and Revenue are sharing info now but I wonder if there are some revenue departments not sharing information. If they were my family member wouldn't have got this letter because his Income Tax is fully up to date as of 31st October 2011. He will phoned them on Monday and I wouldn't like to be at the other end of the line taking that call.
 
Re Megans post -and others . If ,really, people like Megan's relative fully disclosed all sources of income and yet Revenue made the accusation - or even suggestion -that they owed tax/ had evaded tax then some Revenue heads should roll.

However, we know that in Ireland public servants can act negligently, make enormous errors, cause great distress due to foul-ups -and nothing happens.
 
My parents are of that generation as well. I can't see any evidence that their generation is any better than the one that came after them. In fact I think the one that came after them (my generation) is better adjusted, more liberal, less tolerant of crime and gombeenism, more educated and just as hard working. I suspect that the one coming after me will be better again.
so by your thinking in about 100 years time we should be breeding a generation of superheros! or looking back..the generations that fught and died for our freedom and independence,,,,,which this generation has handed over to our EU slavemasters! were in some way less better that us!............strange way of looking at things!
 
Purple,
I wonder if you have considered many of the people who received these notices to whom they should not have been sent.

1. Many received this notice and they are not liable to any additional tax.
2. People who have turned 66 yrs and are in recepit of State Pension for the first
time. They would be expected to make tax returns now, not last year.
3. Couples who have been in receipt of a State Pension for one party and this
year become elegible for the second party to get their pension. Again they
would be making a tax return shortly.
4. People who do not understand the tax system and think they are paying their
tax.
I understand that we pay large salaries to PR staff, now above the government agreed sealing because many of these PR people are overqualified.

I would seriously question the expertise of the PR people who sent out these notices, in the form in which they did, which caused worry and upset to many people who should not have received them.
I hope when you reach the age of many of these Older People, some over 90 yrs, you will be able to take on board the many changes that occur in the 24 yrs since you reached retirement age and make adequate returns.

Recent research shows that at about 40 years of age we start to lose some memory capacity. Most older people will agree with these findings.
I think you are not very understanding of the Older People in society. This generation have improved the world into which you were born. Look at the standard of eduction that exist today. When many Younger Irish People emigrate today they do not have to work in unskilled jobs, but can compete with the best in any country. Look at the position of women in society today. I could go on.

My parents worked very hard, much harder than my generation and made the foundation of our country more sound.
Many of The generation of the celtic tiger cannot lay claim to the same. If you have special expertise I hope you might make some time to volunteer your services to one of the many agencies seeking volunteers today to make our country a better place in which to grow Old.
The services to which Older People have contributed all their lives are being eroded. It is like double taxation.
Currently we are all entitled to a public bed in a public hospital for which we pay in our tax. If this service was available in a timely manner, many would not have to pay for Private health ins.
Now this year the subsidy which we would have received for our payments have been removed and we must pay the full economic cost of our Private Beds and still pay the health contribution. For what?
Surely if we pay for private Health care and get no state benefit, we should not have to pay the Health subsidy.
Browtal
 
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I hope the Revenue and the Media will publish the figures for the numbers of unnesessary scary letters which were sent out to fully tax compliant people.

While I believe that everyone should pay their taxes on an equal basis regardless of age or familiarity with tax system, it is therefore appauling that those who are fully compliant should get a letter from revenue suggesting otherwise
 
My 87 year old demetia suffering mother has been credited with a trading profit of €250 in the latest correspondence from the Revenue. She has been resident in a nursing home for 3 years now, but she ran a bed and breakfast business over 20 years ago and unbelievably Revenue has decided that she is still making a profit from it! You couldn't make this stuff up....
 
As an old age pensioner myself i am somewhat amused at the suggestion that some pensioners thought tax was being deducted from their state pension or that Revenue should have been aware of it. These folk were well aware of the Medical Card implications when they took to the streets some time ago. Frankly many just chanced they would get away with it. I, of course, fully understand the worry and upset some may have endured but i feel this has received undue publicity rather than focusing on those who have evaded tax.
 
Is it legal for revenue to not back date the tax plus penalties and interest?
 
Is it legal for revenue to not back date the tax plus penalties and interest?

As an add on to this question: if they don't back date it will those that have paid their tax on their OAP get a refund ?
 
Of course she does not owe tax, but she still got the notice, I think a fishing exercise of anyone who: 1) is getting state and a private pension, 2) has not had contact with the revenue for many years.

My father got the letters even though he makes an annual tax return which usually results in him getting a refund. He got the generic letter re: increased tax liabilities if you have 2 pensions plus the second letter with the credit details etc. Second letter had all his income (State pension and small occupational pension) included.

I would fully agree that the letters are badly worded. The first letter gives the impression that its a tax demand, however, the second letter confirms all the details are in order and no additional tax is due which is contradictory. (actually looks like he'll be getting a refund again).

However, I think this has all been very beneficial - there is much greater awareness among pensioners of the need to make annual tax returns. Maybe the person who worded the letters is a PR genius - the uproar has certainly got the message across. :)
 
However, I think this has all been very beneficial - there is much greater awareness among pensioners of the need to make annual tax returns.

As well as greater awareness of the heavy-handedness of Revenue over the last 2-3 years


Maybe the person who worded the letters is a PR genius - the uproar has certainly got the message across. :)

They should get a promotion or a raise?

Ah to hell with it, give everyone a raise!
 
As well as greater awareness of the heavy-handedness of Revenue over the last 2-3 years

Out of curiosity, if you were Josephine Feehily for the last 2 - 3 years, with the pressure on to ensure that compliance (and hence the tax take) is maximised, what would you have done differently?
 
Out of curiosity, if you were Josephine Feehily for the last 2 - 3 years, with the pressure on to ensure that compliance (and hence the tax take) is maximised, what would you have done differently?

Yeah I appreciate that Revenue are under pressure to maximise the tax take and all that but they seem to be concentrating on squeezing taxpayers who are generally compliant for a few extra euro as opposed to chasing people who are less compliant

I mean, we get letters in for clients who haven't paid any prelim tax for 2011 or 2012 or whenever (usually cos it's NIL anyway) and then you have guys who haven't sent in a tax return for 2-3 years and they never get any letters!

Another example is the surcharge on directors for late submission of Income Tax returns, which is ridiculously punitive
 
Yeah I appreciate that Revenue are under pressure to maximise the tax take and all that but they seem to be concentrating on squeezing taxpayers who are generally compliant for a few extra euro as opposed to chasing people who are less compliant

I mean, we get letters in for clients who haven't paid any prelim tax for 2011 or 2012 or whenever (usually cos it's NIL anyway) and then you have guys who haven't sent in a tax return for 2-3 years and they never get any letters!

Another example is the surcharge on directors for late submission of Income Tax returns, which is ridiculously punitive

You're talking about two different compliance areas there though - the first being compliance with payments, the second being returns compliance. If they were writing to non-filers about nil preliminary tax you'd be saying, why waste the paper and the postage, since if they haven't filed returns they're hardly going to pay preliminary tax!

The letter the non-filers get will be a letter to warn that prosecution is imminent, and since there's much more work involved in obtaining a prosecution, even a summary one, it's reasonable to expect that these letters will be fewer and further between than the letter to remind people of their pay & file obligations...

Agree with you about the surcharge on directors where income is PAYE only, particularly where there would otherwise be no net liability.

I don't think it's about squeezing taxpayers who are generally compliant for a few extra quid; it's that they're trying to ensure compliance across the board, but it's easier to interact with people who are engaging with you. So they can check on say 10 or 20 relatively compliant people with the same amount of resources as it might take to track down and force compliance / prosecute one non-compliant taxpayer.
 
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