2 Storey Extension to a Terraced house

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Captain Z

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Hi All,
We want to add a 2 storey extension to a terraced house. I know 40 sq meters can be added over 2 floors without planning permisson. The garden is also very long, so we will not have any issues with the 25% rule. I have a few queries;

- Has anyone done this before, and were there any problems with the neighbours? (Our neighbours are friends and we will speak with them first.)
- Are there any contractors that would do the full work including planning and design that you could recommend?
- Any ideas on cost - the last threads on this are a few years old, and I expect pricies have decreased significantly.

Thanks
 
the one thing I would say to you is if you do a 2 storey extension you hall will become a dark pit! we live in a 3 storey house and we looked into this. we went with a single storey extension in the end. you will have to borrow light as much as possible for the hall if you go with a 2 storey extension. you may be able to do this easily - but it's something to consider anyway.
staying onside with the neighbours will be important too, but it sounds like you're on great terms there. we have neighbours who went the other way - gave no info to the neighbours and kept them in the dark about the whole thing. there was an objection and although they still speak, they are not on what you might call 'good terms'.
good luck with the work.

majee
 
Thanks for the info, we are okay on the hall front, as there is not one as such, just a 3ft by 3ft lobby before you go up the stairs. We also have natural lighting fed from the attic via tubing into the rooms where there is no light.

Who did your single story extension and were you happy with it?

Thanks
 
Check out both your neighbouring houses and similar type houses who have built a two storey extension along the lines you are contemplating. You should be able to see the plans submitted for some of these houses as plenty of two storey extensions may have required planning permission. This will give you a few ideas about lay-out, etc.
 
Captain Z said:
Hi All,
We want to add a 2 storey extension to a terraced house. I know 40 sq meters can be added over 2 floors without planning permisson. The garden is also very long, so we will not have any issues with the 25% rule. I have a few queries;

- Has anyone done this before, and were there any problems with the neighbours? (Our neighbours are friends and we will speak with them first.)
- Are there any contractors that would do the full work including planning and design that you could recommend?
- Any ideas on cost - the last threads on this are a few years old, and I expect pricies have decreased significantly.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Captain Z,

There are huge pitfalls for the unwary such as

  • You cannot extended a protected structure without permission.
  • Work to building in an ACA or other zoning may be restricted.
  • 40 sq.m. only applies if the house was not extended previously.
  • Planning law does not supersede the law of the land so you cannot - as of right - build over
- public sewers
- rights of way
- other people's properly line​
  • Precedent may guide you as suggest by Peter Sweeney's post, but it is not written in stone.
  • Contractors do not usually supply design services and majee's post highlights just one of the pitfalls.
  • You have to seek tenders for work like this to get realistic prices.

My best advice is - engage an architect and take good advice before you do anything.

Hope this helps.

ONQ.


[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
Thank you for the responses. We have spoken with a planning expert amd will be engaging an architech. Asap.

Thanks
Keith a.k.a captain z
 
+1 on appointing an architect. He/She will also be able to advise you on whether or not planning is required. Once the designs are complete you should engage a quantity surveyor or check out selfbuildrates.ie to get an independant cost of your building works before appointing a contractor/individual tradesmen. An independant cost prior to tender puts you in prime position to neqotiate with your preferred contractor/tradesmen.

Best of luck with your extension!
 
Building Contractors

Hi Folks,
Thanks to all who responded last time.

We have now started the planning permission process and have finalised our architectural drawings.

Our next step is to appoint a general contractor to complete the works. We will be getting around 3 or 4 quotes. Has anyone any recommendations for a contractor for a residential extension. Somebody who offers good value and excellent service and is reliable.

Look forward to your comments

Keith

p.s. ONQ, please only respond if you can recommend a contractor, thanks.
 
Keith - I had a super insulated 2 story side and huge back extension completed in April this year - Dublin. I've PM'd you the builders details. Would highly recommend them.

My architect produced a 40 odd page spec, plus working drawings and I got 9 quotes based on this. Think you should get at least 5. The highest quote I got was more than double the lowest.... we ended up exactly in the middle!

Each quote had 10-15 headings (Groundworks, Wall finishes, etc) the difference in prices was (and still is) shocking
 
Hi folks,
I am looking do the same with a mid-terraced house (2 storey extension). We are quite clear how and what, so don't need to much design input - however, I would like to get an architect / engineer to draw the detailed plans and spec and supervise the builder.
Anyone has a ball-park how much it costs to get an architect in, work on the what, and get the drawings and spec done so that it can be handed over to a builder?
Also, can anyone recommend an architect who is familiar with more modern building materials or techniques? (so beyond your standard brick wall with a roof).
Ideally, I would like to get plans and spec done first so that I can then take my time to find the right builder and start at on my own time.

Thanks
newirishman
 
Captain Z said:
p.s. ONQ, please only respond if you can recommend a contractor, thanks.
Click to expand...

I can offer the name of a contractor - where are you building, because none of the contractors I know will travel far on the tight prices they are getting these days.

BTW, if you're relying in exempted development for some or all of the works be careful about your distances to boundaries and your area on first floor.
Your next step should be to get permission and they complete the works if your applying for permission.
If you're applying for retention you have to complete the works and then seek retention.
There is no middle ground unfortunately.

ONQ.


[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
OneAndOnly said:
Keith - I had a super insulated 2 story side and huge back extension completed in April this year - Dublin. I've PM'd you the builders details. Would highly recommend them.

My architect produced a 40 odd page spec, plus working drawings and I got 9 quotes based on this. Think you should get at least 5. The highest quote I got was more than double the lowest.... we ended up exactly in the middle!

Each quote had 10-15 headings (Groundworks, Wall finishes, etc) the difference in prices was (and still is) shocking
Click to expand...

Involving NINE firms in this exercise seems excessive.
That work will have to be paid for and eight have no return on this.

Six is the normal maximum, even on large projects, with three the minimum.
Still, you didn't break their arms to come back and I'm sure they were happy to quote you.

ONQ.


[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
Hi NewIrishMan,

We used an architect and I have sent on his details to you, but the prices were very reasonable as we did not include any builders fee negotiations in his fee. He has flat rates depending the scale of the build/drawings. He has also dealt with the planners on our behalf - pre approval and full planning permission.

We found him very good, and are still working with him to finalise the build.

Keith
 
Peter Sweeny said:
Check out both your neighbouring houses and similar type houses who have built a two storey extension along the lines you are contemplating. You should be able to see the plans submitted for some of these houses as plenty of two storey extensions may have required planning permission. This will give you a few ideas about lay-out, etc.
Click to expand...

just a note about checking the neighbouring houses, most of the websites of councils have very good facilities to search for planning applications by name and/or address. The search will usually bring back all documents submitted in the planning application including architects plans and decisions made. It's a great resource to see what has been approved or not in your locality.
 
Keith,

Here is the name of a contractor who confirmed he would be interested in pricing for the work.
This is not a formal recommendation and may not be construed or represented as such.
I have not worked with this firm directly - they have worked with a colleague of mine.

O'Sullivan Construction,
Aras Rosoige, Ballydowd,
Lucan, County Dublin.
M 0872395904

---------------

Best of luck with it.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
Well I always thought that 2 storey extensions required planning permission no matter the size.

Am I wrong about that?

So a two story provided the floor area does not exceed 40sqm is exempt?

Can anyone tell me what the 40 sqm refers to? Is it the footprint? Thanks
 
4th estate said:
Well I always thought that 2 storey extensions required planning permission no matter the size.

Am I wrong about that?

So a two story provided the floor area does not exceed 40sqm is exempt?

Can anyone tell me what the 40 sqm refers to? Is it the footprint? Thanks
Click to expand...

The answers, in order of questioning, are -

1. Yes, you are incorrect on this point. Certain two-storey extensions may avail of the Exempted Development Schedule. However there are several onerous restrictions on location and windows which can make it almost impossible to build one, depending on how they're interpreted, specifically the 2M and 11M required distances noted in the extract below.

2. Not necessarily, there are qualifications as noted above and there are area limits for the first floor component and they differ for detached and semi-detached/terraced.

3. No its not the footprint. The footprint includes the walls. The 40 sq.m. is the total nett additional internal floor area over the original permitted floor area i.e. excluding the walls. it includes any previous extensions, permitted or exempted.

I append an extract from the Planning and Development Regulations 2001 below.

(these have been amended since, but I understand this part is still current)

If you have any further queries, post them here and I or other frequent posters will try to answer them.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

===============<>===============​


From the Planning and Development Regulations 2001

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html



SCHEDULE 2​
Part 1​
Exempted Development — General

Column 1

​
​
Description of Development
​

​
Development within the curtilage of a house

CLASS 1

The extension of a house, by the construction or erection of an extension (including a conservatory) to the rear of the house or by the conversion for use as part of the house of any garage, store, shed or other similar structure attached to the rear or to the side of the house.


Column 2

Conditions and Limitations

1. (a) Where the house has not been extended previously, the floor area of any such extension shall not exceed 40 square metres.

(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 12 square metres.

(c) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 20 square metres.


2. (a) Where the house has been extended previously, the floor area of any such extension, taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 40 square metres.

(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached and has been extended previously, the floor area of any extension above ground level taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions above ground level constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 12 square metres.

(c) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is detached and has been extended previously, the floor area of any extension above ground level, taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions above ground level constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 20 square metres.


3. Any above ground floor extension shall be a distance of not less than 2 metres from any party boundary.


4. (a) Where the rear wall of the house does not include a gable, the height of the walls of any such extension shall not exceed the height of the rear wall of the house.

(b) Where the rear wall of the house includes a gable, the height of the walls of any such extension shall not exceed the height of the side walls of the house.

(c) The height of the highest part of the roof of any such extension shall not exceed, in the case of a flat roofed extension, the height of the eaves or parapet, as may be appropriate, or, in any other case, shall not exceed the height of the highest part of the roof of the dwelling.


5. The construction or erection of any such extension to the rear of the house shall not reduce the area of private open space, reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house, to the rear of the house to less than 25 square metres.


6. (a) Any window proposed at ground level in any such extension shall not be less than 1 metre from the boundary it faces.

(b) Any window proposed above ground level in any such extension shall not be less than 11 metres from the boundary it faces.

(c) Where the house is detached and the floor area of the extension above ground level exceeds 12 square metres, any window proposed at above ground level shall not be less than 11 metres from the boundary it faces.


7. The roof of any extension shall not be used as a balcony or roof garden.
 
To clear up any uncertainty on what we are doing, we have pre-planning approval (this meant slight adjustments to original plans) and the full application is with the council at present. It's now a 12 week wait :)! We needed this because we are doing doundry to boundry extension on a terraced house.

Thanks to all who provided info/advice.
 
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