Key Post Advice to help with organising a funeral/saving on associated costs

Points for discussion:

1. Is it possible to haggle on price with undertakers, has anyone done this and been successful?

2. The high price of coffins, why do some crematoriums rent coffins whilst others don’t?

3. Have seen some undertakers distributing money off vouchers and reducing costs for pay now options, is this dangerous with the current economic climate?

4. Some cemetaries used to allow people to purchase graves and even erect headstones before a death. If this option is still available is it
a good or bad idea?

5. This recent thread on bereavement fares might be helpful. Does anyone have any further advice? I came across this for when I was checking flights this morning.
 
Great idea must get organised myself keep putting it on the long finger.

This link might be worth including FuneralsOnline

You can open an account and then plan what you want and save it on their site and come back and edit/update it as required.
 
This link might be worth including FuneralsOnline

You can open an account and then plan what you want and save it on their site and come back and edit/update it as required.

Hi pudds,

Thanks for the link. Had a quick look and it just made me realise how much is involved in organising a funeral so it is definitely important to educate oneself beforehand. The price of the coffins alone is high.

I couldn't get over the €80 charge if the funeral undertaker's bearers are used.
 
Some useful AAM threads;

Undertaker's quote increases next day

Time off work for relative's funeral

Cost of wedding or funeral musicians

Coffin for stillborn child

It's not a topic I know much about. I suppose it is worth highlighting the very practical cost savings available from choosing cremation over burial. It seems like a far more sensible option to me.

Also, in the scenario of a death overseas, I understand that bringing a body back home is a bit of a logistical nightmare these days, as most planes won't take this kind of freight traffic. Again, for very practical reasons, it might well be worthwhile giving serious consideration to arranging for overseas cremation, so it is just a matter of repatriating a small container of ashes.
 
I think this is an excellent idea, I am interested. I've looked up the sites recommended here but not been able to find the answer to one question. How much does a cremation cost? Not the extra's just the cremation.
 
Some helpful general information:

General Information

  1. Death Certificate: A Death Certificate may be obtained from the local Registrar to find out who this is, you need to speak to the deceased persons General Practitioner, Nursing Home Doctor, Hospital Mortuary Technician or the Coroner involved. Costs of certificates: €10.00 for the first copy, €8 for each additional copy. If a post mortem has taken place it could take anything from 3 month onwards for the Coroners inquest report to be established, you should contact the Coroner involved in relation to this. If you need an Interim Death Certificate in the mean time, the Coroners office will issue this at a cost of €10.00 per copy.
  2. Bereavement Grant: There is a Bereavement Grant available, application form and explanatory booklet may be given to you at the time of the Funeral Arrangements or may be obtained from community care. You will need a copy of the Death Certificate/Interim Death Certificate and Funeral Invoice for this grant (this is not a means tested grant). A form is usually forwarded to you by social welfare when pension book etc. is returned.
  3. Death benefit: The death Benefit is a Social Welfare Grant this is to help towards the cost of the funeral expenses the person that Is paying for this should apply to the Social Welfare Officer at their local Health centre, they should bring along a copy of the Death Certificate/Interim Death Certificate and a copy of the Funeral Invoice for this grant.
  4. Old Age Pension Books: Pension Books should be returned to the local Post Office. If there is either a husband or wife left behind and they are not divorced or legally separated they would be entitled to the deceased persons pension in full for a further 6 weeks. However, the pension book should be returned to the Post Office as soon as possible after the death has occurred and the 6 weeks pension will be sent to them in full within 2-3 weeks.
  5. Widows/Widowers Contributory & Non Contributory Pensions: The application forms and explanatory booklets may be given to a family member at the time of the funeral arrangements or may be obtained from our offices.
  6. Carer’s Allowance: If a family member/friend is on Carer’s Allowance when the death of the person they are claiming for occurs the person claiming Carer’s Allowance is entitled to the allowance for a further 6 weeks. However, they must notify the Social Welfare Officer in question and he will post them the 6 weeks allowance in full within 2-3 weeks of notification.
  7. Widowed Parent Grant: A Widowed Parent Grant is a one off payment to a widow with dependent children who has an entitlement to widow/widower contributory pension, Widow one parent family payment or a Bereavement Grant currently the amount of the grant is €2,500
  8. An Exceptional Needs Payment: administrated by the Health Boards on behalf of the Department of Social and Family Affairs, may be available to give financial assistance if you do not have adequate means to pay for the funeral.
  9. Should I consult a Solicitor: In most circumstances, it is advisable for you to consult a solicitor both to relieve you of many worries and to take control of wills problems of intestacy (when there is no will made) outstanding debts, grants of probate and letter of administration which may be required in order to access assessts and distribute to those entitled. A solicitor could save you a great deal of unnecessary trouble and eventually save your money. If It is know that a will was made, it is important that the contents be ascertained as soon as possible after the death as it may contain instructions regarding funeral arrangements. A will may be among personal papers, with the bank or solicitor for safekeeping.
  10. Probate: if an estate is to go to Probate it is recommended that a family member/executor or solicitor should do this. If you wish to contact the Probate Office they will assist you in every possible way they can send out all the relevant application forms and explanatory leaflets.
  11. Burial or Cremation: The choice of burial or cremation is yours. There is a little difference in the overall cost should the family own a grave. However, if a few grave needs to be purchased, then this can add significantly to the cost of the funeral. When arranging for the opening of an existing grave, please provide us with the grave number or failing that, details of the person or person previously interred in that grave. We will then make all necessary arrangements.
  12. Payment of Funeral Invoice: Funeral Invoice should be paid for within 30 days from the date of the invoice. Should a funeral account go to probate/ solicitor any available funds in Banking Financial Institutions can be law be paid to the funeral Undertaker on presentation of the invoice to that institution.
 
Some advice from Bourkes Funeral Directors.

I've drafted the following in the hopes that it will give help and advice to anyone arranging a funeral:


Funerals in Ireland


A funeral, whether expected or not, is a time of great emotional & financial difficulty. Similar to any significant events, there are some costs which can not be avoided and some with are optional. Below is a list of what a typical funeral in Ireland might involve and the costs you could expect to pay. Some costs may vary depending on where you are located.

Funeral Directors are used to dealing with families at this difficult time and they are also used to catering to different budgets. They will tailor the funeral to match your budget. It is not in their interest to provide a funeral which the family are unable to afford.

Funeral Director

You may not have been in a position to arrange a funeral before, so how do you go about selecting which funeral director to use? The best option would be to ask some friends or relatives to recommend someone they have used previously. If you are unsure, have a chat with a couple of funeral directors. It is best to call into the funeral directors office as you get a better sense of what’s involved and how much things cost. Following talking to several funeral directors you should get a good feel as to who will be best able to meet your family’s requirements.


Cost should not be the only factor – a good funeral director will be able to take a huge amount of stress out of the situation. They should be able to help and guide the family towards making some key decisions and give some ideas around what the family might like to do at throughout the funeral service.

Cemetery

This will typically be the most expensive part of a funeral and the cost will depend on whether you have an existing grave or if you need to purchase a new one. Cemeteries will also vary dramatically in cost, so it is worth asking about suitable alternatives in your locality.


The cost depends on which cemetery you opt for and also which day of the week the burial is due to take place. There is normally an additional cost for weekends and bank holidays. In Dublin you could typically expect the following costs:
- New single grave – costs range from €1800 to €9500 plus grave opening fee
- New double grave – twice the costs for a single grave plus grave opening fee
- Opening of an existing grave in a private cemetery costs €765 to €965 plus additional charges (as below) may apply.
- If grave is in a Cemetery owned by a Council, a County Council fee of approx €425 will apply in addition to the cost of a grave digger who needs to be paid separately, approx a fee of €450 to €500 plus additional charges (as below) may apply.
o Saturday - extra €150 to €385
o Bank Holiday – many cemeteries will not be open on bank holiday but if they are there will be an additional charge and you should check at the time
o Removal of kerbing from around the grave – approx €165 to €300

Cremation

Cremation is getting ever more common in Ireland. It is typically an urban phenomenon with approximately 15% of urban funerals choosing this as an alternative to a typical Cemetery. It is focused mostly in Dublin as there are three crematoriums in Dublin and one in Cork.


The cost for cremation would typical be in the region of € 700, with extra costs for placing ashes in memorial gardens / wall being an additional extra cost of well over €1000. Cemeteries charge a fee for burying ashes in a family grave and these fees vary widely from cemetery to cemetery. Many families chose to scatter ashes at a special location which does not cost anything.

The overall cost of cremation is not always a cheaper option than burial if there is already an existing family plot which has space available.

With a cremation, there are additional medical forms to be signed by the Doctors/Coroners and the family may require a little more time to make arrangements than a standard burial.

In Ireland, many have never attended a cremation and can be unsure about what will typically happen. You should discuss what’s involved, what to expect and how the funeral service happens at a crematorium with your funeral director.

Coffin

All funeral directors will have a wide range of coffins available to suit all budgets. You can select from traditional coffins, more elaborate caskets to environmentally friendly willow coffins. The coffin is often a significant expense and families should clarify the cost at the time of making arrangements. It is not easy to say what an average coffin would cost as the different ranges reflect a variety of different quality coffins (such as solid wood or veneer, brass or plastic handles, panels, carvings etc).


It is not possible (to the best of our knowledge) to rent a coffin in Ireland.

Some undertakers may charge an additional cost for pall bearers so you should check if there is a charge. However, most families prefer to act as pall bearers themselves. In many parts of the country, it is an honour to be asked to be a pall bearer.

Hearse

This is normally an unavoidable expense. The majority of people opt for a motor hearse but it is also possible to have a horse and carriage. If using a horse hearse you need to plan the feasibility of how and when the horse hearse can be used. Certain cemeteries require specific insurances in place for use of horse hearses.


Most city funeral directors (but not all) have modern hearses but you can check this with the funeral director at the time of making arrangements. If you have specific requirements, it is important you indicate this at the time of booking the funeral as some funeral directors may need to hire in additional cars.

Limousine / Car
Traditionally family members would travel to the Church in a limousine and most funeral directors can still provide this service. Many families opt to use their own car or arrange for a friend with a relatively new car to drive them.

Disbursements

Apart from the cemetery fees these would be the outgoings which normally have to be paid, such as a donation to the church, alter boys, obituary notices, music etc. The funeral director will typically take care of this on behalf of the family. If you are unsure, you can clarify directly with the funeral director what disbursements need to be paid and who will be paying them.


Flowers
What flowers you have is entirely at the discretion of the family. The florist will be able to provide flowers appropriate to your wishes and budget. It is getting more popular for people to request family flowers only and request that a donation to a charity be made instead. Your selected charity will often be able to provide envelopes which people attending the funeral can use.

Headstone
If there is a new headstone required, it is normal to wait for approximately a year to allow for settlement, so there is plenty of time to shop around and ensure you get a suitable headstone and inscription.

Pre-Planning a Funeral

Some people like to make their wishes known in advance. If you have selected an undertaker you can approach them and make your wishes known to them. They will keep a record of your wishes on file. It is important you let someone know that you have done this so the family can approach the correct undertakers. You can also leave a written note of your preferences with your belongings.


Additionally, some people don’t like the idea of their family enduring the cost of a funeral and consider paying in advance. In reality, various factors may mean that the type of funeral planned for today may be impractical in the future or it may be impractical/impossible to use the initial undertaker approached, so it probably better to earmark the funds in an account which your family will be able to access.

And finally….

It is very difficulty to give an approximate cost for a funeral as each is unique and individual to each family and the options they choose. Similarly, this post is unable to cover every variable a family is likely to encounter. We will be happy to try to answer any specific questions anyone may have – this can be done via the forum or by PM. We will do our best to issue an accurate and timely response.



Alan Harmon,
http://www.bourkesfuneraldirectors.ie/
 
Hi Alan,

Thanks very much for your post, great piece of work. Hopefully it will give help and advice to anyone arranging a funeral which is a stressful time.

Sue Ellen.
 
List of cemeteries who allow pre-pay:

http://www.rommassey.ie/Cemeteries/Default.79.html

When burial is the preferred option, clients have two options;

  1. re-open an existing grave, providing one is available, and there is space in the grave for the burial.
  2. purchase a new grave - new graves can usually hold two to four burials, depending upon the cemetery, and the location of the grave in the cemetery.
The burial fees charged by cemeteries usually range from €700 to €1200, and are charged whenever a burial takes place. The cost of purchasing a new grave ranges from €1200 to €5000, although, in some cemeteries, new graves can cost a lot more.
A service that we can offer is to have the grave dressed for burial. This involves putting green matting and flowers around the opening of the grave, in order to provide a less stark setting.


  • Mount Jerome, Harold's Cross, Dublin 6W
    • Graves available, but may only be purchased when arranging a funeral.
  • Mount Venus, Rockbrook, Rathfarnham, Dublin 16
    • Graves available, and may be purchased at any time.
  • Kilmashogue, Rockbrook, Rathfarnham, Dublin 16
    • Graves available, and may be purchased at any time.
  • Shanganagh, Shankill, Co. Dublin
    • Graves available, but may only be purchased when arranging a funeral.
  • Dean's Grange, Blackrock, Co. Dublin.
    • Limited number of graves available, but may only be purchased when arranging a funeral.
  • Glasnevin Cemetery, Finglas Road, Dublin 11.
    • Graves available, and may be purchased at any time, but a premium of 100% is applied when purchased prior to a funeral.
  • Dardistown Cemetery, Old Airport Road, Cloghran, Co. Dublin.
    • Graves available, and may be purchased at any time, but a premium of 100% is applied when purchased prior to a funeral.
  • Newlands Cross Cemetery, Ballymount, Dublin 24.
    • Graves available, and may be purchased at any time, but a premium of 100% is applied when purchased prior to a funeral.
  • Palmerstown Cemetery, Palmerstown, Dublin 20.
    • Limited number of graves available, and may be purchased at any time, but a premium of 100% is applied when purchased prior to a funeral.
  • South Dublin County Council
    • South Dublin County Council operate many cemeteries, such as Bohernabreena (Tallaght), Esker (Lucan), Newcastle, Saggart, Cruagh (Rathfarnham), Templeogue, and some other older and smaller cemeteries. Graves are available in some cemeteries, and may be purchased prior to a funeral, but are subject to restrictions, such as being of pensionable age, and resident in the surrounding area of the cemetery.
  • Fingal County Council
    • Fingal County Council operate many cemeteries in north county Dublin, the most well-known being Fingal/Balgriffin (Malahide Road), Mulhuddart, Rush, St, Margaret's, Garristown, and many other older and smaller cemeteries. Graves are available in some cemeteries, but may only be purchased when arranging a funeral.
  • Dublin City Council
    • Dublin City Council operate St. Fintan's (Sutton), Kilbarrack, Clontarf, Blackhorse Avenue and Bluebell cemeteries. Graves are not available for purchase.
  • Church of Ireland
    • Some parishes of the Church of Ireland have their own churchyard burial grounds, such as Castleknock, Howth, Santry, Drumcondra, Clondalkin, Tallaght and Taney (Dublin 14). Some have new graves available.
 
We will be happy to try to answer any specific questions anyone may have – this can be done via the forum or by PM. We will do our best to issue an accurate and timely response

Hi Alan,

I posted these questions above and just wondering if you have any views/info on them:

The high price of coffins, why do some crematoriums rent coffins whilst others don’t?

I knew I had seen something on this when I was looking for general info for this key post. Found this again to-day on Google. It would lead one to believe that of the three crematoriums that only allow the rent-a-casket option. I've a bee in my bonnet about some of the very expensive coffins being used for cremations which just does not make sense to me.

Some cemetaries used to allow people to purchase graves and even erect headstones before a death. If this option is still available is it a good or bad idea?

Is there any money to be saved in buying ahead or is it a good idea at all? From the list above 100% additional charge applied by some of the cemeteries seems excessive.

Thanks,

S.E.
 
Some useful AAM threads;

Undertaker's quote increases next day

Time off work for relative's funeral

Cost of wedding or funeral musicians

Coffin for stillborn child

It's not a topic I know much about. I suppose it is worth highlighting the very practical cost savings available from choosing cremation over burial. It seems like a far more sensible option to me.

Also, in the scenario of a death overseas, I understand that bringing a body back home is a bit of a logistical nightmare these days, as most planes won't take this kind of freight traffic. Again, for very practical reasons, it might well be worthwhile giving serious consideration to arranging for overseas cremation, so it is just a matter of repatriating a small container of ashes.

Hi Complainer,

Just looking at the cost of the musicians in that thread and wondering if it would be a better idea to compile songs yourself as I see that some crematoriums allow music. Morbid thought but some people might like to choose the songs that will be played at their funeral. I've certainly checked out some songs since I started compiling this thread.
 
Hi Complainer,

Just looking at the cost of the musicians in that thread and wondering if it would be a better idea to compile songs yourself as I see that some crematoriums allow music. Morbid thought but some people might like to choose the songs that will be played at their funeral. I've certainly checked out some songs since I started compiling this thread.

I don't think it's morbid at all. I had my funeral playlist on iTunes up to recently. I had to cut it back from 20 songs to about 12, based on some feedback from friends that they weren't going to hang around all day. Sadly, I lost the list in transferring my iTunes library between laptops.
 
Coffin Rental from Mount Jerome?

I was aware that they had offered this service in the past but I didn’t think they still did. Mount Jerome is a privately owned crematorium & not one that we use too often (due to location). You could ring Mount Jerome and ask them if they still accept coffins rented for a funeral service and if so are they aware of any funeral directors offering this as a service. I have checked the websites of funeral directors and it is not mentioned on their websites – but might be available as an option if requested.
As mentioned above, cremation is still a relatively new option in Ireland and the concept of rental may grow in popularity in the future.

Buying a grave in advance?

It is possible to buy a grave in advance from some cemeteries, but not all. You do not need an undertaker to do this, you simply need to contact the cemetery directly.
Different cemeteries operate different policies (as I see you have posted above): some will allow you to buy at the standard price, some will not sell in advance (particularly the council owned graveyards) & some will allow you to buy at an inflated price (usually double the existing purchase price), as it may not be a practice they want to encourage..

Crematorium – Can you bring along your own music?

All crematoria let you play whatever music you want. You can bring along a CD or iPod and they can play it through their sound system in the crematorium. The crematoria also have a selection of music that they can play if you don’t bring along your own.
 
Hi Alan,

Thanks for that.

Confirmed that Mount Jerome is the only crematorium allowing the rent-a-casket scheme and Staffords and Rom Massey appear to be the only undertakers facilitating it. People would probably need to negotiate the rate individually for this service but there is probably a lot to be saved in light of the high charges for coffins.

See

Is the coffin cremated and what coffins are suitable for cremation?

Emphatically YES the coffin is cremated! The remains cannot be safely placed into the cremator unless a coffin is used. There are a wide range of coffins available for cremation. They can be made from wood, cardboard or wicker.
Some coffins can even be rented. These coffins / caskets have a basic inner coffin resting inside a more ornate outer coffin / casket. It is the inner coffin that is removed and cremated. The outer ornate coffin / casket is returned to the funeral director for re-use. Please note that we cannot cremate any metal coffins.
 
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