Value Investing - Courses in Dublin? and Advice please

ringledman

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Hi,

Any Value Investors out there? Anyone live by the rules of Graham and Buffet?

I really believe that this is the best approach to investing in the markets particularly the way the economies are going.

Can anyone provide any advise on the subject? Any courses on investing and in particular value investing run in Dublin?

Cheers.
 
Invest Like The Best and Solas Financial run courses on stock-market investment in general, although I don't think either specifically concentrates on value investing. But they might be of some interest to you. I'm not aware of any courses that solely teach the value approach.
 
Very Interesting question and well timed!!

We are actually considering running a seminar on this very subject in Dublin and would be interested in assessing the demand out there.

If you are interested in learing more about value investing please private message me with your personal e mail address and if there is sufficient demand, we will run a seminar for askaboutmoney members.

Evidence from practising investors and academics alike points to an undeniable conclusion: returns are related to risk.

Gain is rarely accomplished without taking a chance, but not all risk-taking is rewarded. Financial economics over the last fifty years has brought us to a powerful understanding of the risks that are generally rewarded and the risks that are not.


Market Shares have higher expected returns than fixed interest.
Size
Small company shares have higher expected returns than large company shares.
Price Lower-priced "value" shares have higher expected returns than higher-priced "growth" shares.


Everything we have learned about expected returns in the equity markets can be summarised in this way:

Firstly,stocks are riskier than bonds and have greater expected long-term returns.

Relative performance among stocks is largely driven by the two factors:

small cap vs large cap and value vs growth.


Many economists believe small cap and value stocks outperform over the long term because the market rationally discounts their prices to reflect underlying risk. The lower prices give investors greater upside as compensation for bearing this risk.

[broken link removed]
 
Very Interesting question and well timed!!

We are actually considering running a seminar on this very subject in Dublin and would be interested in assessing the demand out there.

If you are interested in learing more about value investing please private message me with your personal e mail address and if there is sufficient demand, we will run a seminar for askaboutmoney members.

Evidence from practising investors and academics alike points to an undeniable conclusion: returns are related to risk.

Gain is rarely accomplished without taking a chance, but not all risk-taking is rewarded. Financial economics over the last fifty years has brought us to a powerful understanding of the risks that are generally rewarded and the risks that are not.


Market Shares have higher expected returns than fixed interest.
Size
Small company shares have higher expected returns than large company shares.
Price Lower-priced "value" shares have higher expected returns than higher-priced "growth" shares.


Everything we have learned about expected returns in the equity markets can be summarised in this way:

Firstly,stocks are riskier than bonds and have greater expected long-term returns.

Relative performance among stocks is largely driven by the two factors:

small cap vs large cap and value vs growth.


Many economists believe small cap and value stocks outperform over the long term because the market rationally discounts their prices to reflect underlying risk. The lower prices give investors greater upside as compensation for bearing this risk.

[broken link removed]

Marc,

Growth stocks are the way to make money in the equities market. With all due respect the value investing argument is the way brokers off load stocks that nobody wants to the gullible public. O'Neill's books and many other studies have illustrated this.

But if you are running a course and want me to come along a give a talk (no charge) on how the pro's trade the markets I would be happy to do so.
 
Hi,

Any Value Investors out there? Anyone live by the rules of Graham and Buffet?

I really believe that this is the best approach to investing in the markets particularly the way the economies are going.

Can anyone provide any advise on the subject? Any courses on investing and in particular value investing run in Dublin?

Cheers.

Don't waste your money on these 'value investing' courses. Buy a book, or Berkshire Hathway B stock.
Do you think the people giving these courses would need to be giving them if they really knew how to invest in the market? Don't think so.
 
Marc,

Growth stocks are the way to make money in the equities market. With all due respect the value investing argument is the way brokers off load stocks that nobody wants to the gullible public. O'Neill's books and many other studies have illustrated this.

But if you are running a course and want me to come along a give a talk (no charge) on how the pro's trade the markets I would be happy to do so.

Lemur,

I would gladly accept your offer.

We seem to represent alternate sides of this debate so we could have a lively presentation around passive investing vs trading and speculating or Growth vs Value investing which would make it all the more interesting.

Maybe we should ask Eddie Hobbs or George Lee to moderate?
 
Lemur,

I would gladly accept your offer.

We seem to represent alternate sides of this debate so we could have a lively presentation around passive investing vs trading and speculating or Growth vs Value investing which would make it all the more interesting.

Maybe we should ask Eddie Hobbs or George Lee to moderate?

Ok. This is an old debate but it would be fun to clear up people's mis-conceptions about trading. The reality is investing is just trading with a longer timeframe. Traders sometimes joke an investment is a trade that is under water (which reminds me of Sean Quinn's recent foray into CFD's which has now become an investment).

However, if you are running a trading course then debate is not a suitable format as that would confuse people.
 
Marc,

Growth stocks are the way to make money in the equities market. With all due respect the value investing argument is the way brokers off load stocks that nobody wants to the gullible public. O'Neill's books and many other studies have illustrated this.

But if you are running a course and want me to come along a give a talk (no charge) on how the pro's trade the markets I would be happy to do so.

Lemur,

Share your thoughts with us then regarding the greatness of growth shares.

Most are too highly priced to be investments or represent 'new technology' that never makes investors long term money...railways, air companies, tech stocks in the 90's and probably alternative energy stocks now.
 
Lemur,

Share your thoughts with us then regarding the greatness of growth shares.

Most are too highly priced to be investments or represent 'new technology' that never makes investors long term money...railways, air companies, tech stocks in the 90's and probably alternative energy stocks now.

Ringledman - this is an old argument with lots of studies on it. Your second statement is to general to be meaningful.

Pick up a copy of O'Neill's book on CANSILM investing to grasp some of the concepts and take it from there.

From a value point of view the only stocks I would consider are high div paying ones such as the Canadian energy trusts.
 
Ringledman - this is an old argument with lots of studies on it. Your second statement is to general to be meaningful.

Pick up a copy of O'Neill's book on CANSILM investing to grasp some of the concepts and take it from there.

From a value point of view the only stocks I would consider are high div paying ones such as the Canadian energy trusts.

Hardly a convincing argument. Growth stocks will get hit hard in this downturn. Lack of investors and falling earnings across the board.

Growth stocks are great in the good times, terrible in the bad.

Value is the only way forward to minimise the downside in the current climate which is the number 1 rule.

Growth and value returns oscilate depending upon the economy. Value is the way forward now.
 
ringledman....i am a value investor and contrarian at heart. I am an avid reader and follower of buffett, munger, dreman, bolton and a number of other very well known value investors.

value investors represent about 5% of the investing population, which suits me just fine.

all i can say to you is read, read, read and continue reading. This is what buffett and munger do the whole time. The internet is an immense wealth of information- search search search.

Read all the berkshire hathaway annual reports and read and study the value investors bible- the intelligent investor by ben graham.

read as many value investing related books you can get your hands on and you will do very well.
 
Hardly a convincing argument. Growth stocks will get hit hard in this downturn. Lack of investors and falling earnings across the board.

Growth stocks are great in the good times, terrible in the bad.

Value is the only way forward to minimise the downside in the current climate which is the number 1 rule.

Growth and value returns oscilate depending upon the economy. Value is the way forward now.

The idea is you ride growth stocks up and take profits. You don't ride them down.
 
So we agree, growth stocks will be a terrible investment over the next 5 years of economic woes.

5 years is too long a timeframe for me. Who knows where the market will be in 5 years. Admittedly, its not looking good
 
5 years is too long a timeframe for me. Who knows where the market will be in 5 years. Admittedly, its not looking good

So your a trader then not an investor.

Guess that explains our different approaches.

Value investing favours the long term investor. I want to buy a share and forget about it for the next 30 years, return to it and see the huge gain.
 
ringledman....i am a value investor and contrarian at heart. I am an avid reader and follower of buffett, munger, dreman, bolton and a number of other very well known value investors.

value investors represent about 5% of the investing population, which suits me just fine.

all i can say to you is read, read, read and continue reading. This is what buffett and munger do the whole time. The internet is an immense wealth of information- search search search.

Read all the berkshire hathaway annual reports and read and study the value investors bible- the intelligent investor by ben graham.

read as many value investing related books you can get your hands on and you will do very well.

Thanks Smiley i couldn't agree more. The intelligent investor blows you away with its rational, contrarian approach. To follow the crowd screws you in investing, I have been there.

Value investing is in my opinion is the route for the long term investor. Growth fads come and go. Value companies that produce the basic boring products and services at the same time producing good earnings beat the 20-35 P/E growth stocks every time. Buy them and forget about them for the long term.

Whats your thoughts on the 'cigar butt', 'worth more dead' approach of Graham? What's the situation for the investor if they do go bust?
 
Thanks Smiley i couldn't agree more. The intelligent investor blows you away with its rational, contrarian approach. To follow the crowd screws you in investing, I have been there.

Value investing is in my opinion is the route for the long term investor. Growth fads come and go. Value companies that produce the basic boring products and services at the same time producing good earnings beat the 20-35 P/E growth stocks every time. Buy them and forget about them for the long term.

Whats your thoughts on the 'cigar butt', 'worth more dead' approach of Graham? What's the situation for the investor if they do go bust?

'Value companies that produce the basic boring products and services at the same time producing good earnings beat the 20-35 P/E growth stocks every time.' - A clueless comment I am afraid. Value stocks are cheap for a reason. You need to do some research in this area.
 
hi ringledman...

cigar butts and grahams approach works. The only problem over the last few decades is there hasnt been so many companies below tangible net asset value to buy. Graham always bought at least 1/3 below the tangible nav.

the trick was he bought enough of these stocks so was very well diversified..so even if a few went bust (which is going to happen) he still beat the market by miles.
Buffet and co of course now adapted grahams approach and buy below 'intrinsic value', and this is the approach i mostly use. Of course in the last year mr market has gotten very ill and is now giving companies away, in some cases at huge discounts to tangible nav.
That wont last too long though, once his medication kicks in. Its bargain time galore!

I have read a lot of mostly value investing related books over the last 2 years. I have learnt a heck of a lot. I have also made mistakes which i plan not to make again. Most of these were companies i bought before i read a lot of the value investing books.

The pyschology of the whole market fascinates me. The 'herd instinct' amongst the average investing public (including most fund managers) is unbelievable. I just do the total opposite. Ive trained myself to do this. Id also say the contrarian approach is also part of the way we are wired.

However much i cannot stand the media circus at the moment, they are doing long term value investors a great service. They are frightening the life out of people, causing them to sell their shares and so on.....bargain time!
 
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