Bidding against myself....

amateurbuyer

Registered User
Messages
15
Hi all,

I recently went sale agreed on a place with the opening bid starting ~60k less than our final bid. Every time we put in a bid we were soon outbid again. Pretty normal I know.

It finally came to a time when we reached our limit and after putting in our final offer, we were outbid again. When speaking to the EA I informed them that this was the limit of our mortgage but we would try to re-apply for another 5k. We were granted the extra 5k and after calling the EA and putting this in as our bid we were told we were outbid again by another 5k. I spoke to the EA and told them that we couldn't get any more and so, with regret, we would have to leave it at that.

About 20 minutes later we received a call from the EA telling us that although there was a higher offer, they recommended us to the vendor and he agreed to go with our bid. The EA we were dealing with seemed like a genuinely good person so we were nervously excited that we were accepted.
Whenever I tell this to people they ask the question that has been playing in the back of my mind ever since:
"How do you know you the other bids were real? What if you had stopped at 20k earlier?"

I know it is illegal for an EA to falsely claim there are other bids but, as far as I know, there is no way to really check. I wouldn't like to insult the EA by flat out asking but... well.... I don't want to be stupid either.
Does anyone know if there is a way, or even if we are within our rights to question such things?

I spoke to an owner of an identical unit and they made a comment saying "Well if you got it for EUR"X", then you are ok". However, "X" was 2/3 of the price we bid for it. The valuer we had look at the place said he had nothing to compare it to but prices are increasing and so would agree to the valuation. He definitely didn't sound sure though...

I would appreciate any input or comments you may have.

Thanks in advance...
 
Unfortunately there's little you can do... there is no requirement to prove an alternative bidder, the EA is tasked with getting the best price possible for the seller and from your perspective, if you're happy with the offer you made that's ultimately all that should matter. Of course that applies equally whether your final offer was accepted or not.
 
As you've only gone sale agreed and haven't signed contracts you can always pull out if you're not happy with the final price or feel you've been duped.
 
Hi gents,

Indeed we could pull out but then would be left wondering if there was a real bidder. It seems we can't win. Someone has to have given the highest bid. I'm just worried I have been a complete amateur about the whole thing.

Not many people are experts on buying property. It's such a large purchase that you do it once or twice in a lifetime. If you make a mistake on one property, it will be a long time before you can use the lessons learned. Most people who give you advice also have limited experience to draw on.

It's a tough one...
 
Given that the Property hasn't gone 'Sale Agreed' it is still on the open Market. You could try and get some more info from the Agent. Maybe get your Sister/ Friend (someone other than you) to call the agent and make some enquiries - say that they have just become aware of the House for sale and would like to enquire as to the current offer etc.

I do agree it is an awkward one, but as you say you think it is a reputable EA. I don't think EA's can get away with this too much, Ireland is too small a place and people talk too much. Also with the Property Price Register at least you can now see what the Sale price is, it must have an affect on EA's transparency.
 
Hi argentina,

Thanks for your suggestions. However, we have gone 'sale agreed' so can't get anyone to call. However, we did do this with a place we were interested in before but that was a different EA and we let that one go (funnily, we recently had a call back asking if we were still interested as the buyer for that one pulled out).

There should really be a record of the bids but I guess even if there was an official record, the EA could just get an acquaintance of theirs to make a bid if they really wanted to.
 
we did do this with a place we were interested in before but that was a different EA and we let that one go (funnily, we recently had a call back asking if we were still interested as the buyer for that one pulled out).

This says it all.

I think you need to have a few, or better still several houses that you are interested in, make your offers and walk away, when the agent sees you are prepared to walk, those that genuinely do not have higher bids will be back fairly soon.

Far more advantageous for you to play the agents along than the other way around, but this won’t work if you have your heart set on one particular house, the agent will squeeze every last cent out of you.
 
Ask the EA for written confirmation that there was a higher bid submitted after your bid. It's unlikely the EA will put a lie down on paper.


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'About 20 minutes later we received a call from the EA telling us that although there was a higher offer, they recommended us to the vendor and he agreed to go with our bid.'

All I can say is, dodgy, very suspect! Why would they do themselves out of an extra few quid??
 
Maybe the bidders with the higher offer did not have funds in place or did not have mortgage approval in place. A higher bid is no guarantee of an extra few quid. There are more factors than price.


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I spoke to the EA and told them that we couldn't get any more and so, with regret, we would have to leave it at that.

About 20 minutes later we received a call from the EA telling us that although there was a higher offer, they recommended us to the vendor and he agreed to go with our bid.

This stinks to high heaven. Suppose the other bidder actually exists, and suppose it's true that there was a good reason for preferring your bid over theirs. So why wasn't it true at 5k less ... or 50k less? If the other bidder wasn't good for the money, how come they were treated as good right up until the last 5k was squeezed out? I smell a gargantuan rat.
 
i'm sure I got ghost bid in 2006!

1. If you love this house and its your dream house then move in and start enjoying life and family
2. if its not your dream house, then tell the EA that the bank have pulled some funding and you can now only get current offer (-25k)

you'll have an answer soon enough as either one, they'll drop the price for you, two, they'll sell to the real/ghost bidder at the price near what your offer was or 3, they'll wait for another person to try this scam on and the house will sell for what you were going to pay but in 6/12 months time.

its a tricky one,

bob!

ps. please keep us updated
pss. I always felt this topic would have made a great investigative journalism piece tracking 30 house, getting ghost bid, pulling and then seeing how many times the EA comes back crawling. if the crawl rate was over 85% then you know ghost bids are real and happening practice.
 
I don't know why people are so shocked about this. It also happens in auctions where many auctioneers are well known for taking "bids from the wall" meaning that the auctioneer points his finger and accepts a bid from a fictitious buyer at the back of the room in an effort to get the price up to its reserve level.Essentially the guy in the front row who's bidding is bidding against himself

Its the same thing in a private treaty sale. The seller will typically set a reserve price at which they are willing to sell. If someone makes an offer below the reserve price the estate agent will try to get them up to a price that's acceptable to the seller. Many unscrupulous estate agents will invent a phantom competing bid to achieve this.

When buying a house, don't concentrate on competing bids, concentrate on what the house is worth to you and bid accordingly. If the estate agent informs you that you have been outbid, it usually means one of three things 1) There is a real competing bidder OR 2) There is a ghost bid introduced beacuse your previous offer is not acceptable to the seller OR
3) the estate agent has picked up from you that you are so keen that you will be willing to pay more.
Every time the estate agent comes back to you seeking a new bid you have to decide if the house is worth it to you or not. Concentrate on that.
 
I agree this stinks ! We bid a price for a site, it kept going up and up (with a so-called reputable EA) and when we reached our limit, we pulled out.

Each time we bid, we were allegedly outbid. Then the clincher for me, when we put in our last bid, the EA came back later and texted to say the new asking price was now 3K cheaper than what our final bid was !!!

I trusted my gut instinct at the time and I have no regrets. We walked away from it.

Good luck with your decision.
 
1. If you love this house and its your dream house then move in and start enjoying life and family
2. if its not your dream house, then tell the EA that the bank have pulled some funding and you can now only get current offer (-25k)

you'll have an answer soon enough as either one, they'll drop the price for you, two, they'll sell to the real/ghost bidder at the price near what your offer was or 3, they'll wait for another person to try this scam on and the house will sell for what you were going to pay but in 6/12 months time.

Agree with this, if the house is number 1 then suck it up and enjoy the new house if it is number 2 then you have nothing to lose.
 
Agree with this, if the house is number 1 then suck it up and enjoy the new house if it is number 2 then you have nothing to lose.

Very true.

The bottom line is if you are totally opposed to the cloak and daggers of private treaty, then consider the transparent approach of auction.
 
i was in this situation several times with increasing bids in dublin 3/7/8 for weeks on end and then on pulling out being told by estate agent that the higher bidders couldn't complete the sale and that my final bid would actually now be accepted. I royally told them where to go. If you really love the house and location accept what you've offered, if not, revert back to your original bid and start the process again, there are plenty of houses out there and yes, estate agents are chancers!
 
i was in this situation several times with increasing bids in dublin 3/7/8 for weeks on end and then on pulling out being told by estate agent that the higher bidders couldn't complete the sale and that my final bid would actually now be accepted. I royally told them where to go. If you really love the house and location accept what you've offered, if not, revert back to your original bid and start the process again, there are plenty of houses out there and yes, estate agents are chancers!

This story doesn't prove that estate agents are chancers, not in a market where we are informed property prices in Dublin have gone up 25% in the last 12 months. And we have posters on here worried about purchasing in the rising market. (this is a certifable fact, not a debate on house prices, just on the current statistics of house prices)
 
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