Irish Depositors beware - Pat Kenny Show

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I have just listened To Ciaran Lynch the Labour TD who is also Chair of the Oireachtas Finance committee being interviewed on the Pat Kenny radio show.

The conversation started with Kenny wanting to know how during Irelands Presidency of the E.U. that we acceded to the principal of making deductions to depositors in Cyprus and the possible impact of contagion as a result of this.

Deputy Lynch put forward his views that application of a levy on depositors was appropriate, the more the depositor had the greater he argued the ' levy ' should be. Pat Kenny drilled him hard that this was effectively theft and Deputy Lynch dodged many times but failed to discuss the principals involved however Kenny did want to talk about the principals involved and the fact that this Govt has applied a levy on pensions already which was effectively a theft and theft was his word not mine and not denied or challenged by Deputy Lynch.

Whilst the conversation started out about Cyprus it evolved quickly into what this T.D's view was about making depositors pay up by imposition of a levy. The conversation was removed from talk about Cyprus at that point. Remember this guy is a member of Government, his view which is reasonable I think to say the Labour party view was crystal clear and frightening to me as a depositor that has spread my life savings across the Banks and thereby thinking I could rely on the €100k blanket guarantee.

This is at odds with what was declared by Deputy Coveney in the Dail yesterday.

I have held my deposits in Ireland when many suggested moving these overseas. I have seen what I thought was a lot of scare mongering on AAM about this topic. After hearing this interview I am now scared and need to review, I am now gambling and I am no gambler. Deputy Coveney says it will never happen, Deputy Lynch who is Chair of the Finance Committee agrees with it as a strategy.........did anybody else catch it or could it be listened to again on a Playback...
 
It can only be considered as theft or be honest and say it is a tax. Whilst the institutions of state and EU are saying it is akin to requisition under the guise of emergency but with no guarantee of restitution once the emergency is over it can only be theft or tax.
I am a modest mannered person but what I hear in the last days and again this morning is making me reconsider whether we are being lead on a EU wide basis by self serving hypocrites who are just making it up as they go along.
 
I was listening to that too, frightening stuff.

The most frightening part is the continued naivety of labour in government. Large numbers of their back benchers don't seem to understand that they are in government and continue make idealistic comments that they have no hope of delivering.

Labour got their asses well and truly whooped by Fine Gael on the issue of higher income tax on those above €100k in the December budget. Fine Gael and the labour front bench will come out stongly against the principle of levying depositors.

The major consequence of this will be either the inevitable loss by labour of half their seats in the next election. I think at this stage they would be better off splitting the party into a "New Labour" and a democratic left.
 
I cannot believe what I heard on the Pat Kenny show this morning. It appears that the €100k bank deposit guarantee is not guaranteed at all except when a bank becomes insolvent otherwise your deposits are fair game.
Both Labour and Fine Gael have supported the theft of money from depositors accounts in Cyprus.
The spokesman for Labour also thinks that it is fair game to take more money from people who have savings of €200k.
 
Sinn Fein in opposition will be opposed to this "cypriot levy" but if they were in Government would see it as a fertile area to visit and it would not damage their vote. There would also be support for it in the part of the Labour Party that does not think they are in Government as well as from some of the Independents.
 
Well I have a very small private pension pot. I am a very long way from retiring but a few years ago had to cease payments into my pensions due to recession etc...

Mypension pot is subject to a levy as has everyone elses for last few years. What is the difference between this and my tiny deposit in my Bank?

Were the Cypriots not really just levying a different type of savings..i.e money saved in a Bank instead of money saved in a Pension?

I object to both but I genuinely would like to know what the difference is as both involve the Government reaching in and taking what I have saved, not interest on it but the actual capital, not a gain but the principal.

So what is the actual difference?
 
My pension pot is subject to a levy as has everyone elses for last few years. What is the difference between this and my tiny deposit in my Bank?

Were the Cypriots not really just levying a different type of savings..i.e money saved in a Bank instead of money saved in a Pension?

I object to both but I genuinely would like to know what the difference is as both involve the Government reaching in and taking what I have saved, not interest on it but the actual capital, not a gain but the principal.

So what is the actual difference?

The difference is that a large portion of the charges you have paid to your pension provider are related to the stringent solvency and regulations imposed on pension providers. In effect, you have paid for the security of your investment.

The person with the deposit, on the other hand, has placed their money in a more reckless organisation.

I would never suggest that anyone depositing money in a bank should be burnt as there is a social expecation that banks will be regulated appropriately. By extension, it is an absolute farce that the person in the pension fund who actually has invested in an organisation that is appropriately regulated is required to pay a levy.
 
don't forget that individual pension pots have been dipped into by the current Government which is maybe even more dangerous than levying deposits
 
Can I ask a question about the Cypriot bank deposits, were these already subject to the equivalent of DIRT tax?
 
Would it be fair to conclude following the interview this morning that one should now withdraw deposits from this country, what Deputy Lynch stated will certainly frighten off the larger corporate depositors for sure, it is well known that some large corporates ( CRH has been mentioned in this space ) move their funds out each Friday and back each Monday, point being if it is going to happen then it will happen when the Banks are closed.

This isn't about which political party you favour, it is about theft, we all know our pensions have been dipped into. After what I heard this morning I really believe this attack on small or large depositors will become a reality for deposit holders here in Ireland despite what Minister Coveney stated in the Dail yesterday, i.e. - that this would never happen.

We are being softened up and lied to, you'd imagine the Govt partners could stay on the same page at least but no they cannot. If it happens I for one will not be sitting quietly by.

I would urge all to listen to that piece and after listening come back here and give your opinion if you are not too livid that is.

Is it now time to ringfence whatever deposits individuals possess and secure them elsewhere..? We could do nothing about the pension thefts but we can about this...if we act on what we hear and do not behave like sheep.. thoughts after listening to the piece please..?
 
I genuinely can't understand why people are so shocked. I can only put it down to people not appreciating what a financial train wreck this country was in 2008, and continues to be today. Whatever you think about making the bondholders whole (and I have grave reservations myself), without external help every bank in this country would have closed its doors, never to open again. Every depositor would have lost every cent.

The banks are still on life support. In time they may eventually trade their way out of difficulty. They may or may not need further support. (In my opinion they will). Bank savings are at risk, there is no two ways about it. If you think otherwise you are deluded. The good returns paid to depositors up to last year were reflective of that risk.

If you had savings in Ireland since 2008 and suffer a 10% haircut in future, you are still showing a healthy profit. To me it's a risk I'd prefer not to take, but can live with. Most other options come with their own risk. Other people must make their own risk analysis. But please don't act shocked that your savings are at risk. We are living through an unprecedented financial catastrophe. What on earth were you expecting???
 
it appears that the government is waiting for some other country to raid people account then they will followed. They do not want to be the first country to do the raiding of people accounts first, it is far easier to wait and say Cyprus has done it therefore what is so wrong with Ireland doing it.
 
I would discount everything uttered by politicians. They are playing a confidence game. It's not that they're lying but it's their job to tell you everything will be ok. To take them at their word would be like mistaking a financial products salesperson for a financial advisor. Simon Coveney or Ciaran Lynch can't tell you what's going to happen. How would they know? In the interview with PK, you could almost hear what Ciaran Lynch wanted to say, but couldn't. "Ah c'mon Pat, Cyprus is crocked -- how else were they going to pay". That, of course is an admission that desperate times call for desperate measures, and if our own situation gets desperate enough we'll have to employ the same desperate measures. But that's the truth of it.
 
every bank in this country would have closed its doors, never to open again. Every depositor would have lost every cent.

dub nerd, I dispute this. I was well aware of the previous guarantee covering 90% of €20,000 and had so arranged my funds as to have lost the minimum. If the banks had closed, I would not have lost "every cent", only 10%.
 
I share Dubnerd's surprise at other posters' surprise.

Surely nobody believes that one's assets are regarded by governments as inviolate? Especially by left-wing/socialist parties some of whom have quite openly stated that there should be a wealth tax.
A property tax -every year - is a "theft" as much as any once-off tax on one's bank account.

I don't agree with it. Whether it's called property tax or assets tax or wealth tax, I think income tax and reasonable sales-tax(vat) should be enough , and that one should not be penalised for putting one's money into bricks or into a bank.

But,sadly, governments across the world are doing it -and Pat Kenny's surprise that it was attempted in Cyprus surprises me. The bank guarantee is against the failure of the bank. It obviously does not mean that the government can't take that money, as infuriating as that may be.
 
dub nerd, I dispute this. I was well aware of the previous guarantee covering 90% of €20,000 and had so arranged my funds as to have lost the minimum. If the banks had closed, I would not have lost "every cent", only 10%.

You're not getting it. Who do you imagine was in a position to pay your money back?
 
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