Vat on Retail Property Rent

nconroy

Registered User
Messages
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I need to confirm that the retail property I am renting is or is not subject to VAT.
Background:
Built in 1992
I rented unit from in 1994, question of Vat on rent never came up
Lease mentions "plus VAT if applicable", so leaves question hanging in the air.
Recently an auctioneer friend had a look at the lease and reckoned that the Unit is relatively new and would most likely be vat able.

Never got an invoice or receipt from landlord.

Asked landlord about it, he came back saying the rent is not Vatable. Check online, found this area of Vat to be most complicated.

My question, is there a government office that I can contact to establish the definitive status of the VAT liability on my unit?
 
Short answer is NO

Revenue won't give you a definitive written answer so do not accept anything that a Revenue official tells you over the phone because if it's wrong then it will cost you

You should go to a tax expert
 
I need to confirm that the retail property I am renting is or is not subject to VAT.
Background:
Built in 1992
I rented unit from in 1994, question of Vat on rent never came up
Lease mentions "plus VAT if applicable", so leaves question hanging in the air.
Recently an auctioneer friend had a look at the lease and reckoned that the Unit is relatively new and would most likely be vat able.

Never got an invoice or receipt from landlord.

Asked landlord about it, he came back saying the rent is not Vatable. Check online, found this area of Vat to be most complicated.

My question, is there a government office that I can contact to establish the definitive status of the VAT liability on my unit?

Before you go off with a tax expert, perhaps you should look more closely at this:
Recently an auctioneer friend had a look at the lease and reckoned that the Unit is relatively new and would most likely be vat able.

Is this what triggered your post?
What basis has the friend got for making what seem to be somewhat tenuous assertions.
Whats in the lease that made him say that?

What make the LL think its not?

The system changed as from 1st July 2008 and my recollection of the system for pre 2008 is that the default for SHORT LEASES was no VAT unless the LL chose to "waive the exemption" or similar wording.
Your lease is from 1994 if i read your post correctly.
What duration is this lease?
Has there been refurb work done since 2008?

I presume you have gone through this:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/leaflets/property-guide/index.html
Its pretty logical
 
Your landlord is the one who will know.

VAT on property is complex and there could be numerous reasons why the property would be exempt.

If you have never paid VAT on rent then that would indicate its exempt.
 
Thanks everybody for quick reply.
In response to ircoha, yes, it was my auctioneer friend's comment that triggered this post.

My lease is somewhat vague in that the only copy of a signed lease is a 1994 lease with my previous landlord, month to month.
In 2004 a new lease was prepared, a five year lease. I have no signed copy, but do have the unsigned draft copy that my solicitor checked out for me. I don't remember signing the 2004 lease, but it was a while ago.

In 2005, unit sold to new landlord, no new lease. I just changed standing order to pay to new landlord.

The main trigger for me is trying to get my landlord to reduce rent to market value, currently a nearly double marked value. Landlord is resisting, I can understand, he purchased at top of the market in 2005, but I want a fair rent for myself.

If there was a second lease signed in 2004, it should be the same as my draft copy, which is not an upward only rent review. It is a five year lease, reviewed on a two year basis. Last reviewed in 2009. Landlord telling me his copy of lease is for twenty five years, my copy says five years.

So, all this recent inter action with the landlord has raised several issues, VAT question, does lease signed with previous landlord apply to new landlord. I am sure I never signed a lease with new landlord.
 
Thanks for all the detail: the plot thickens indeed, beyond VAT.

You say you have no receipts for rent paid.
How does your auditor, assuming you need one, sign off on the rental payments?
After all the other account could be yours...:)
 
Thanks for all the detail: the plot thickens indeed, beyond VAT.

You say you have no receipts for rent paid.
How does your auditor, assuming you need one, sign off on the rental payments?
After all the other account could be yours...:)

I don't see how that thickens the plot any further - the OP knows he has paid the rent, and has a lease that should show the amount of rent payable.

As regards the VAT, it's not really the OP's concern, since at worst there is an input deduction that hasn't been claimed, but there's far too many unknowns for anyone to comment here - the only sound advice in a case like this is the original advice - GET PROPER PROFESSIONAL GUIDANCE.
 
Yes, it looks like the accountant missed this over the years. It's a small business, so no audit, but accounts are prepared each year.

My old landlord was a bit casual regarding the lease, and the new landlord took over the property without paying too much attention to the lease either.

Anyway, this will sort itself out now that I am looking to reduce the rent to the fair market rate, this will test whatever lease does exist.

Will let you know how it ends.
 
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