Bridging the gap between 60 and oap

LorraineB

Registered User
Messages
6
Have the option to buy back years and retire at 60 from local authority with 40yrs. My question is how do I bridge the gap between 60 and receiving my state old age pension. I am paying and A stamp. I contacted the social welfare office who said I should be entitled to unemployment benefit for 9 months then must seek unemployment assistance which will then be means tested. When I do this they will see my pension lump sum in my bank account therefore I cant see them giving me anything. I have checked re supplementary pensions with my HR department. They seemed very vage and knew very little about it as they said must people apply for social welfare and they only pay this out if someone is not entitled to anything else. I would be working over 20 with local authority and thought I should be entitled to it but on reading any comments online it says it 'May' be paid. Also if I retire and get the 9 months unemployment benefit and then get refused unemployment assistance will my previous employer have washed their hands off me as it will be then 9 months down the line into my retirement. Hope this makes sense. Also do people retiring early get this all straightened out and confirmed before they retire or are you sitting retired and then realising you are not entitled to anything. Any comments from people with expierence of this would be must helpful as this will influence whether I buy these years back cause I don't want to be over paid to pension because I cant afford to leave early after all.
 
Your HR people should really be able to advise on all this, or if you're a member of a Union they should be able to assist.

In relation to the LA washing their hands of you, yes that will be the case, you will have retired so are no longer their concern.
 
Thanks dereko1969. As I said they seemed to not know much about it as they said people normally get social welfare which I cant understand with them knowing you would have just recently got a lump sum. Yes figure your right once your gone your gone in their eyes.
 
cindyc

If you have to apply for Job Seekers Assistance after your benefit runs out the means test is based on the amount of a lump sum you have in the bank.
You should be able to work out the means test from the following diagram.

First €20,000 Nil
Next €10,000 €1 per €1,000
Next €10,000 €2 per €1,000
Balance €4 per €1,000


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...t_for_social_welfare_payments/means_test.html

As you are 'only' 60 you still have 6 years to go before retirement in the eyes of social welfare so you will still have to be searching and available for work. Who knows you might find yourself something part time.
 
Let me start by saying that I'm really not familiar with this scheme, but a look at the documentation suggests the following:

On retiring at 60, you need to decide either to start receiving benefits immediately or to postpone them until you reach 65. If you elect to start receiving benefits at 60 then they will be paid at a reduced rate because it will be for a longer period and since you are retired on benefits there is no unemployment benefit claims etc.

On the otherhand, if you elect to freeze benefits until you are 65, then it is assumed you are looking for other work and so you would claim unemployment benefits. You will not have a problem with the means test because you will not have received the lump sum, that only happens at 65!

That is as best I can figure it out. It really is too bad HR can't help you out, because the documentation suggest contacting then to get figures for all this.
 
I believe the Supplementary Pension must be paid by the public-sector employer, to ensure that those employees paying PRSI on the (integrated or co-ordinated) A-rate are not disadvantaged compared to their colleagues who are paying PRSI at the D-rate. This is very important for those retiring from age 60, but before state pension age. The way it is meant to work (I think!!) is as follows - the employee paying A-rate PRSI retires at 60 (say) and then will be eligible to receive unemplyment assistance for 9 months (as well as getting the employer part of the pension over that 9 months). The employee then must apply for unemployment allowance, which is means-tested. Many employees will be entitled to little or no UA and must get written proof from the social welfare office that this is indeed the case. This written proof then needs to be submitted to the employer, and it is their responsibility to ensure that the full pension you receive will be the same as someone who retired at 60, having paid class D PRSI through their working life. If the employer doesn't engage with you on this, then the union should be called upon and, as a last resort, the pensions ombudsman (visit their website, they do mention about supplementary pension in one of their FAQs as a right for class A PS employees).

Unfortunately the word "may" is bandied about with respect to the Supplementary Pension, but as far as I am aware, it must be paid as long as the retiree proves they are eligible for no other form of social welfare to supplement the employer portion of their pension. There must be many past employees out there receiving it, teachers, nurses etc etc There will only be more and more such cases in the future.

It is high time clarification was finally brought to bear on this issue as there are many PS folk planning their retirement who really need to know where they stand.
 
Thanks Japester for that detailed reply. It is how I had hoped it would work. In practice though I will be left the public service for a whole nine months at the stage were the unemployment assistance will have ceased and then need to apply for benefits. As I will be gone for 9 months will my employer not have washed their hands off me at that stage. Also you mention Union who are pretty useless at the moment when I am paying into them bear in mind I will be retired then for 9 mths - would they feel they have no loyality me anymore as I will not be subscribed to them when retired. I agree that more clarification should be given on this as you said rightly from now on more Class A people will be encountering this problem. I am just surprised no one else is making these enquiries I have searched everywhere online. Is there someone out there who has been successful in getting the supplementary pension from their employer 9 months after leaving?? Thanks again everyone for the replies. Jim 2007 HR said I get the lumpsum at 60 so that is why I fear a means test.
 
More than welcome cindyc - are you certain that you pay PRSI at the A rate? If you have been working with the Local Authority for 20 years then I would have thought you'd be pre April 1995 and thus paying PRSI at the D rate instead. If you are indeed on the A rate, then now is the time to get in touch with the HR section where you are working and immediately demand a statement of retirement benefits were you were to retire at age 60. Tell them that you need them to let you know for certain whether or not a supplementary pension is payable to you between the ages of 60 and the state retirement age, as long as you satisfied the condition that you were not entitled to unemployment allowance and were not seeking work i.e. were effectively retired. Instruct them that this is vital so that you can make an informed decision as to whether you could afford to retire at age 60 in the first place. Also remind them about the pension ombudsman public sector FAQ on their website and what it states there about supplementary pension as follows:

6. My pension is co-ordinated with the State Pension. I am due to retire at 60, but the State Pension is not paid until 65.
Generally in the Public Service a supplementary pension is paid if you do not qualify, immediately, or qualify in full, for a State Pension. This will cease or reduce, as appropriate, when the State Pension comes into payment.

This tells me that those employed in the PS are entitled to supplementary pension as long as they satisfy the necessary conditions, which the vast majority of A-rate PRSI employees will.

Your HR section may genuinely not have come across people who are eligible for supplementary pension thus far and so are unsure about the legislation in this regard, but there will be more and more cases in the future for them to deal with. Yours may be their first case, but from everything I have read on the matter, you cannot be any worse-off than a colleague who was paying PRSI at the D rate who elected to retire between 60 and state pension age - it would be grossly unfair otherwise and effectively mean that those paying PRSI at rate A would be at a huge financial disadvantage compared to their class D colleagues, with the vast majority unable to retire for financial reasons before state pension age.

So I advise you to act immediately on this matter and keep on top of it - its your retirement and your future after all and there's a big difference between being able to retire at 60 and 67/68!! Do let us know here how you get on with HR in the meantime, and should you need to get in touch with the pensions ombudsman office, do not hesitate to do so. This supplementary pension is your absolute entitlement as far as I am aware. The very best of luck with everything you do in the meantime.
 
Thanks, Japester, for useful info re financial options when considering early retirement from the Civil Service. Just strictly for information purposes for benefit of readers of this thread, I'm a late entrant to the CS - in 1997, after 24 years' in private sector/1.5 yrs on dole/1.5yrs on contract, therefore I'm post-1995/Class A PRSI. Then at end of 2009, I applied for Incentivised Career Break - 3 years length. Just before resuming service in early 2013 (3yrs 3 mths out of service/no PRSI contributions - stupid of me), I suddenly took ill for the first time in my life and as a result, I was NOT eligible for Illness Benefit/Dental Benefit for which at least 2 years' PRSI contributions were required to be eligible. I'm not too happy about that, despite my impeccable record of PRSI contributions since entering the workforce at the age of 18 in 1971. So be careful not to allow the PRSI contributions to lapse or whatever. Allencat3
 
Thanks, Japester, for useful info re financial options when considering early retirement from the Civil Service. Just strictly for information purposes for benefit of readers of this thread, I'm a late entrant to the CS - in 1997, after 24 years' in private sector/1.5 yrs on dole/1.5yrs on contract, therefore I'm post-1995/Class A PRSI. Then at end of 2009, I applied for Incentivised Career Break - 3 years length. Just before resuming service in early 2013 (3yrs 3 mths out of service/no PRSI contributions - stupid of me), I suddenly took ill for the first time in my life and as a result, I was NOT eligible for Illness Benefit/Dental Benefit for which at least 2 years' PRSI contributions were required to be eligible. I'm not too happy about that, despite my impeccable record of PRSI contributions since entering the workforce at the age of 18 in 1971. So be careful not to allow the PRSI contributions to lapse or whatever. Allencat3

Hi allencat3, I'm very sorry to hear you were not eligible for illness benefit when you had almost finished up your incentivised career break. I can't for the life of me understand why Human Resources departments won't advise employees about these things before they take such leave! You'd wonder whose side are they on? It's great that you have come on here to let others know about this danger.

Are you going to be retiring soon? If so, I'm just wondering if you have you sounded out about the Supplementary Pension from your Human Resources Dept? In your case, having been in the Civil Service for 18 years and, being a post-1995 recruit, I believe you would probably be one of the earliest cases where a Supplementary Pension would come into question, that is of course if you are below state pension age when you choose to retire. If you are retiring soon, it would really be great if you could let us know how you get on in relation to Supplementary Pension in due course. As I stated in an earlier post, it is your absolute entitlement to receive it, and no doubt it would put many minds to rest to hear that you have been paid it, again assuming that you are retiring before state pension age.
 
Hi allencat3, I'm very sorry to hear you were not eligible for illness benefit when you had almost finished up your incentivised career break. I can't for the life of me understand why Human Resources departments won't advise employees about these things before they take such leave! You'd wonder whose side are they on? It's great that you have come on here to let others know about this danger.

Are you going to be retiring soon? If so, I'm just wondering if you have you sounded out about the Supplementary Pension from your Human Resources Dept? In your case, having been in the Civil Service for 18 years and, being a post-1995 recruit, I believe you would probably be one of the earliest cases where a Supplementary Pension would come into question, that is of course if you are below state pension age when you choose to retire. If you are retiring soon, it would really be great if you could let us know how you get on in relation to Supplementary Pension in due course. As I stated in an earlier post, it is your absolute entitlement to receive it, and no doubt it would put many minds to rest to hear that you have been paid it, again assuming that you are retiring before state pension age.
Hi Japester, I had been in touch with the Dept. EAO re early retirement etc, and was informed about Supp. Pension. The EAO added that he'd pass me the contact details of the Pensions Unit for queries. I was not quite too impressed that it turns out to be a website URL: www.cspensions.gov.ie (!). I had been onto that website several times over the past year or so, and it's made more complicated due to the handover of pensions admin. to PeoplePoint which is quite hopeless / useless. Anyway, I'll hassle the appropriate sections re Supp. Pension and keep you/viewers posted. Allencat3
 
A small note, for clarity.
I see on two comments that state Pension starts at 65 . Probably an oversight, but does state pension not now start at 66.
 
Hi Japester, I had been in touch with the Dept. EAO re early retirement etc, and was informed about Supp. Pension. The EAO added that he'd pass me the contact details of the Pensions Unit for queries. I was not quite too impressed that it turns out to be a website URL: www.cspensions.gov.ie (!). I had been onto that website several times over the past year or so, and it's made more complicated due to the handover of pensions admin. to PeoplePoint which is quite hopeless / useless. Anyway, I'll hassle the appropriate sections re Supp. Pension and keep you/viewers posted. Allencat3

Hi Allencat3, thanks for that information. Yeah, I can well understand why you're not very impressed on receiving that URL, but at least you were informed about the Supplementary Pension when you chatted to your EAO. I never heard of PeoplePoint, which is just as well by the sounds of them :) I'll be very interested to hear how you get on with your queries on the Supplementary Pension though, best of luck with it and hopefully all will go very smoothly for you. Remember that it is your absolute entitlement as a PS employee paying PRSI at the A rate - not getting it would mean a huge disparity in terms of pension income between those employees on the D rate retiring in advance of State Pension age and those on the A rate. And this is the reason for the Supplementary Pension in the first place, to ensure PRSI A rate employees were not to be disadvantaged in this respect.
 
+1 to everything japester says on this thread.

It beggars belief that a crucial query re pension entitlement gets ducked by a HR department (whether public or private sector) and passed on to an external agency; that the worker asking the question gets fobbed off with a URL is scandalous.

Any PS employee nearing retirement who does not receive a written guarantee from their employer re Supp Pens should call in their union (god knows you've probably been paying dues for decades). The unions need to be all over this issue. I simply refuse to believe that the Dept of Finance doesn't have their eye on this as a potential saving in years to come and I think the unions are in danger of sleepwalking into being suckered on it.
 
A further complication with the supplementary pension, as I understand it, is that a former PS is precluded from working in any form: should they engage in employment or self-employment, even on a part-time or occasional basis, the supplementary pension must be surrendered in respect of time worked. Someone mentioned earlier that the intention of the supplementary pension was to ensure that a post-1995 PS was not disadvantaged when compared with a pre-1995 PS. However, I don't think a pre-1995 retiree is forbidden to work, so if this is correct, that is hardly equal treatment.
 
So if a post 1995 Class A PRSI payer with a retirement age of 60 and a salary of €80k retires at 60 with 40 years service, does he/she get €40k of pension straight away?

I know that the State pension is integrated with his/her pension, but that doesn't kick in until 68.
 
So if a post 1995 Class A PRSI payer with a retirement age of 60 and a salary of €80k retires at 60 with 40 years service, does he/she get €40k of pension straight away?

I know that the State pension is integrated with his/her pension, but that doesn't kick in until 68.

The retirement age is 65, a person can choose to retire at 60, but is not obliged to.
 
Sorry, I don't think that's right. I'm not talking about compulsory retirement (i.e. "get out"). I'm referring to the age at which the public servant normally retires and gets their pension.

Take the following case:

- Commenced in 2000 aged 20
- Earns €80k
- Retires aged 60 in 2040

My understanding is that this person receives their full pension of €40k immediately, with circa €12k of it being made up of what is known as a supplementary pension. Then when the person reaches State Pension age, the supplementary pension is replaced by the State Pension.

But I'm not sure, and the publications on this sort of thing are terrible.
 
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