SERIOUS issue with tenant

Did your sister contact the CWO to ask if the RA will now be trasferred to her instead of the tenant as this person is still occupying the property?

She should also send the CWO a copy of the PRTB judgement against the tenant to prove that she is in breach of her tenancy agreement.

Has she contacted the PRTB to inform them that the situation has now escalated? It is the PRTB’s policy to prioritise cases where tenants are not complying with valid notices of termination and are in significant rent arrears. Assuming she is successful at the PRTB adjudication hearing, the PRTB will issue a binding Determination Order. If the tenant does not comply with it, she should contact the PRTB and request that they enforce the Determination Order.

Delgirl thanks for the sound advice - I will certainly urge her now to contact the CWO to see if they can transfer the RA to them directly, at least it will be something!

At the same time a solicitors letter went to the CWO one went to the PRTB to inform them of the situation but no response as yet....

I would only love to go round and give this woman money to get her out of their lives once and for all and have offered the cash to pay her off (50th offer today when my pregnant sister was bawling on the phone to me). But my brother in law would kill me if I did it on the sly - I just know the way he is, he wants to deal with the situation himself through the solicitor and keep my sis out of it as much as he can. They are considering paying her off themselves but are so reluctant because she has been so nasty and such a liar (you should have read her PRTB submission!) that it pains them to give her even more money!

Really appreciate the advice though and I will certainly pass it on!
 
I assume they would cut off the RA and the another DSP payments. In my experience the tenant may move to another area to get this turned back on. Also be aware they may transfer any services like ESB, GAS back to the LL and continue to use it, leaving the LL with a bill. You might want to flag this to the companies involved.

Unfortunately I think the tenant knows what they are doing and stringing the LL along.

I will certainly flag this to them thanks for the tip!
 
Your sister should

- pay the blackmailer and end the saga.

OR
-refuse and suffer further loss and stress whilst the tenant stays in situ for ages.
OR
- take the risk of getting someone to put the tenant's stuff outside and change the locks when the tenant is out.

The first option would be the obvious one for your sister who is pregnant and obviously in a distressed state.

Is it rude of me to ask why don't you go round and give the nasty person the deposit back and get her out ?


A number of years ago a friend had a similar problem so her brother and some of his friends (all early 20s), moved into the property with a few crates of beer and a stereo and began to party. The tenant called the guards. The guards called the owner, the owner said her brother had permission to be on her property, the guards said it was a civil matter and left and the partying continued. The tenant was out in a matter of hours. It was in the days before PRTB, it wasnt a legal solution, but it worked.
 
About "direct action" :_

If you ask lawyers they will always advise caution ,going through the proper procedure. A waste of time ,as we keep saying.

The gardai don't want to know but there is a small possibility that if the tenant is clued up she may take it further legally and say she was unlawfully evicted. Doubtful but there is a chance.

I have in the past changed the locks twice and dumped stuff outside. But that was twenty years ago. I was younger and fitter and as my staff were mainly from Tallaght, Ballyfermot and North inner City they had brothers and friends who could assist me.

(In the meantime I've leanred the letting game and am much much more careful abouyt vetting tenants.)

My wife was horrified but it was necessary to show the non-paying damage-causing tenants that they would be advised not to take revenge - and that is something that you should take into consideration. If the tenant is a nasty crazy person with connections then it may not be the legal consequnces that should worry you.

Look- we're talking about a few hundred Euros. Stop procrastinating and pay her if you don't want to take more "direct action", and because of your sister's condition and the small amount I'm not sure I'd recommend it in this case.
 
Can a landlord take their own possessions out of a rented property? Say the cooker, fridge etc.?
 
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My wife was horrified but it was necessary to show the non-paying damage-causing tenants that they would be advised not to take revenge - and that is something that you should take into consideration. If the tenant is a nasty crazy person with connections then it may not be the legal consequnces that should worry you.

I had just such a scenario with a lovely couple and 3 kids, in my case I paid them back the deposit to leave, with my sister packed about 30 bags of rubbish, it was disgusting, I paid the binmen to take them, paid for all the repairs and later received a High Court summons from said tenants for personal injuries. On the court date, both she and he were brought from their respective jails (unheard of for a mother to be jailed - Judge was annoyed at her because he considered she was teaching her children to steal), but because they came from different jails, one of them missed the evidence of the other (and another family member lying) and case thrown out as stories didn't match. I found out the next house they went to they smashed all the windows, and he took a hurley stick to a teenager's head. I consider I had a very lucky escape. She also used to leave the very young kids home alone, I had to fly to Ireland to suss them out myself because they were expert at lies and you'd never think anything was wrong with the house.
 
At the same time a solicitors letter went to the CWO one went to the PRTB to inform them of the situation but no response as yet....

!

Your family have hired a solictor? Have you asked the fees for all this? A letter or email from you to the CWO costs nothing and you don't need a solicitor for the PRTB, you realise you are going to get zero back and will only incur more costs.

This lady is a pro. She's playing you all beautifully.

As for waiting for the PRTB, they are toothless, it can take months and you do realise all the orders and determinations they issue are a waste of the paper they are writtten on. If you don't believe me contact the IPOA as I've already suggested to you.

Document everything, the abusive phone call, did she threaten you?

Only satisfaction I get from this story is she must have been livid, and you have no idea how livid she would have been when CWO told her no more rent. It may move her on to do the same scam elsewhere on another unsuspecting landlord.

To get her out the lure of cash might do it, especially now she's lost the rent. She needs time to plan and move on. Tell her you'll give her the cash, on a day that suits her, once she's out the door, and tell her not to do any damage or she's getting nothing, it might be enough to stop her doing damage.
 
I assume they would cut off the RA and the another DSP payments. In my experience the tenant may move to another area to get this turned back on. Also be aware they may transfer any services like ESB, GAS back to the LL and continue to use it, leaving the LL with a bill. You might want to flag this to the companies involved.

Unfortunately I think the tenant knows what they are doing and stringing the LL along.

Can the landlord ring the companies involved and maybe ask them to cut off the services for the time being. A tenant without electricity or heating may leave sooner than they hoped to?
 
Can the landlord ring the companies involved and maybe ask them to cut off the services for the time being. A tenant without electricity or heating may leave sooner than they hoped to?

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the tenant hasn't already transferred those accounts into the landlords name.
 
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the tenant hasn't already transferred those accounts into the landlords name.

I'd say it's quite possible alright. And if they have done this, simply turning off the services would leave the tenant in a tough position with no energy or fuel, would you agree?
 
There's a child in the house, and PRTB would take a really really dim view of one doing that.
 
If the tenant had verbally agreed a date to move out a landlord might arrange to have power cut off shortly after that date to avoid paying standing charge...
 
Can the landlord ring the companies involved and maybe ask them to cut off the services for the time being. A tenant without electricity or heating may leave sooner than they hoped to?
Considering that this tenant seems to know / be playing the system, this could prove to be a very costly course of action for the landlord.

There are numerous dispute decisions on the [broken link removed], which have gone against landlords changing locks or cutting off uitlities. I can recall one dispute I read on their website, unfortunately I don't have time to dig it out today, where the landlord evicted non-paying tenants by moving their belongings from the house while they were out and changing the locks.

The landlord had to pay in the region of €10,000 in damages to the ex-tenants and they still owed him money for unpaid rent etc. [broken link removed]

Whatever your sister does, she should record all contact with the tenant - smartphones have this facility and I used it with my troublesome tenant earlier this year.

There's some advice on how to proceed on [broken link removed] And here's the legal standpoint on [broken link removed].
 
Hello there,
I really want to thank people for the good information on here and I am certainly passing it on. Latest is the tenant rang the solicitor and gave her a whole pile of abuse on the phone - she is extremely frustrated and there's some satisfaction to be had there! The solicitor reckons she is actually a little bit nuts and it would be a mistake to give her cash as she is not a reasonable human being.

The solicitor they are using is a friend and says they will only charge admin costs and no rush paying it - otherwise they really could not afford one. The real benefit is they are taking some of the pressure off and my family have no contact anymore with the tenant directly (because they too think she's a nutbag). I worry about the damage that might be done to the property at this point.....

One question - I hear the PRTB are toothless? Can they ever issue an order to evict a tenant? Assign a bailiff to do the job? If not then why the hell do they exist if they have no power?

In the meantime the hope is to get the RA cheque paid directly - no response on that one yet but it would certainly help whilst this mess is being sorted...

Thanks again for taking the time to reply
 
PRTB issues orders and decisions, and they can take court cases (rare). The PRTB do not have bailiffs, after you go through the long procedure (months or a year or two) then IF the PRTB have the money and IF the PRTB think it's worthwhile they will go to court. Haven't heard about them actually succeeding in evicting anyone, someone else might have a record of this and might correct me if I've got the PRTB procedures incorrect.

I find it amazing that the family want to receive rent from RA for this tenant ? Surely they want rid of the tenant.

It's not clear what the solicitor is doing hopefully issuing valid termination notices, but if everybody is happy that's great.
 
The landlord had to pay in the region of €10,000 in damages to the ex-tenants and they still owed him money for unpaid rent etc.
Slightly off-topic but what kind of action can the tenant take if they are owed money from the landlord after a PRTB ruling and the landlord simply refuses to pay ?
 
Considering that this tenant seems to know / be playing the system, this could prove to be a very costly course of action for the landlord.

There are numerous dispute decisions on the [broken link removed], which have gone against landlords changing locks or cutting off uitlities. I can recall one dispute I read on their website, unfortunately I don't have time to dig it out today, where the landlord evicted non-paying tenants by moving their belongings from the house while they were out and changing the locks.

The landlord had to pay in the region of €10,000 in damages to the ex-tenants and they still owed him money for unpaid rent etc. [broken link removed]

Whatever your sister does, she should record all contact with the tenant - smartphones have this facility and I used it with my troublesome tenant earlier this year.

There's some advice on how to proceed on [broken link removed] And here's the legal standpoint on [broken link removed].

My apologies, I wasn't aware that this could end up costing so much to a landlord. It's scandalous really. Thanks for the info!
 
....In the meantime the hope is to get the RA cheque paid directly - no response on that one yet but it would certainly help whilst this mess is being sorted......

If you do that you can't evict them. Either evict them or get the rent you can't do both.
 
Can the landlord ring the companies involved and maybe ask them to cut off the services for the time being. A tenant without electricity or heating may leave sooner than they hoped to?

You can't ask them to cut it off. (thats illegal you can be fined) You can tell them not to put the bills in the LL name as the tenant has been served notice and is overstaying. If they decide to get tough on their own unpaid bills, that's the companies own issue not yours. Usually a tenant in this position won't be paying any bills. And of course if a fault or problem arises with anything you don't have to fix it.
 
Delgirl's most informative post and excellent links should send a chill down every LLs spine, if one hadn't already got one from bronte's horrific example of how tenants can abuse LLs.

What made me particularly shudder was the last part of the Delgirls' link to the landlord's website ("LLs' online")about a LL who took action through the court aftr PRTB's issuance of the "Determination Order (Order to evict).
It seems PRTB rarely enforce their own determination Orders. So, this LL took court action. ...

Now, the horrible part is this :-
The "landordsonline" article part 5 claims -as if it were good news - that "all in all the LL succesfully received possession in less than four months from the PRTB Order to vacate "
ONLY four months ??!
And how long did it take the PRTB to issue the Order to Evict ?Surely some months after the first complaint from the LL. PRTB do not evict tenants within a few weeks after a LL's compalint.
And we don't know how much the tenant owed before the LL complained to PRTB.

It would seem that the "tenant" could owe up to a years rent before the "succesful" eviction.. And ONLY because the LL took action after the PRTB Order to Evict.

So this may have cost the LL , what ?, a years rent on a house or two-bedoomed apt - maybe 12.000 euros or more? Besides legal fees and all the time spent.

So what's the alternative ,besides paying the tenant off ???

We read the case in Delgirl's link of the LL who illegally evicted tenants and his subsequent fine.
This LL did act stupidly in many ways. If he had followed a few procedural steps and then changed the locks he still would have acted illegally but would the fine have been so much ?

A property owner has to weigh up the risks of losing several thousand Euros in non-payment of rent -or the fine which perhaps may be lessened if the owner acts carefully and cleverly.

Either way the LL is between a rock and a hard place.
 
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