Public Service is Recruiting Again
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mandelbrot
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How do you know there'll be thousands?!
Granted, clerical officer is numerically the most common grade, but due to the historical practice of promotion on seniority, it also has a lower age profile relative to the higher grades.
Also, given that the "gold plated" PS pension is worth less than 8k on top of the contributory OAP for a retiring CO, there haven't been huge swathes of retirement at that grade, as there have at more senior grades.
And given the ability to leverage technology to reduce the need for numbers of clerical staff, redeployment rather than recruitment might be the method of choice to address shortages identified.
Hundreds of jobs, definitely. A thousand plus over the life of a panel, most likely. But thousands, as in 3-4, might be pushing it
1. There has been no recruitment in the Civil Service for years.
2. It is a similar situation with promotions which will have to have vacancies filled from existing staff.
3. Natural Wastage is telling (people retire or die).
4. Many have left the Civil Service because of relatively low wages.
5. Applications for Career Breaks, Paternal Leave, Maternity Leave, etc have never been higher.
6. There is need for a large conveyor belt of applicants as posts will have to be filled fairly fast.
7. Overtime, Agency staff being employed is too costly and bad value compared to personal responsibility of a clerical officer in situ.
At an informed guess there will be at least two thousand vacancies. It ain't rocket science, you know!
2. It is a similar situation with promotions which will have to have vacancies filled from existing staff.
3. Natural Wastage is telling (people retire or die).
4. Many have left the Civil Service because of relatively low wages.
5. Applications for Career Breaks, Paternal Leave, Maternity Leave, etc have never been higher.
6. There is need for a large conveyor belt of applicants as posts will have to be filled fairly fast.
7. Overtime, Agency staff being employed is too costly and bad value compared to personal responsibility of a clerical officer in situ.
At an informed guess there will be at least two thousand vacancies. It ain't rocket science, you know!
mandelbrot
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So now you've gone from "thousands" to 2,000...!
Accepted, technically 2,000 is "thousands", but only just - Methinks you had a higher figure in mind originally...!
I don't want to appear negative in any way, I'm simply saying that I reckon 2,000 is at the very upper end of the number of full-time CO's likely to be recruited into the civil service over the 2-year life of a panel.
1. Come on Mandlebrot, we're splitting hairs here. Obviously the medical service has to recruit doctors on an ongoing basis and also the occasional nurse. This is the first time in years that the Civil Service is recruiting on a large scale.
2.Again, we're splitting hairs. "Not entirely true" means true.
3.Newsflash! There is more to the public service than Revenue. There are areas in the PS that have ageing staff.
4.Have a look at the Clerical Officer grade and its low wages plus long increment scale (14 years I think!). These have caused many people to leave. See letter in Irish Times last Saturday where a new Clerical Officer with 3 children will easily qualify for Income Supplement from Dept Soc Wel.
5.If it is cheaper to hire staff then what is stopping the Civil Service?
6.There are job vacancies on a wide scale to be filled. Of course the conveyor belt system will have to be used and kept well oiled.
7.I reckon 2000 is a target on the lower end of this recruitment drive. Let's forget about technicalities and what you think that I think.
For the first time since the recession started I reckon there is some kind of hope for Ireland Ltd. Although, wages are low in this recruitment drive, at least, the whole issue gives out some hope. Without hope we have nothing. The issue will drive some decent usage into our economy and if you cannot see the win/win situation, I am at a loss.
Mr Earl, have a look at the entry salary scales for the new clerical officers. None of them will be booking trips to the next World Cup Finals.
2.Again, we're splitting hairs. "Not entirely true" means true.
3.Newsflash! There is more to the public service than Revenue. There are areas in the PS that have ageing staff.
4.Have a look at the Clerical Officer grade and its low wages plus long increment scale (14 years I think!). These have caused many people to leave. See letter in Irish Times last Saturday where a new Clerical Officer with 3 children will easily qualify for Income Supplement from Dept Soc Wel.
5.If it is cheaper to hire staff then what is stopping the Civil Service?
6.There are job vacancies on a wide scale to be filled. Of course the conveyor belt system will have to be used and kept well oiled.
7.I reckon 2000 is a target on the lower end of this recruitment drive. Let's forget about technicalities and what you think that I think.
For the first time since the recession started I reckon there is some kind of hope for Ireland Ltd. Although, wages are low in this recruitment drive, at least, the whole issue gives out some hope. Without hope we have nothing. The issue will drive some decent usage into our economy and if you cannot see the win/win situation, I am at a loss.
Mr Earl, have a look at the entry salary scales for the new clerical officers. None of them will be booking trips to the next World Cup Finals.
shoestring
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After 12 years in the private sector I joined the public sector in 2007 as a clerical officer and quite reasonably, I think, anticipated moving up the ladder. Hasn't happened due to the recruitement ban.
Its hard to keep morale up especially as some of the staff in higher grades are not fit for purpose or just generally incompetant with no drive or ambition to improve the efficiency or morale of their workplace.
I would discourage anyone else from leaving the private sector to come into the public sector on a lower grade at the moment at least until grade 4 and 5 jobs become available which is not going to happen any time soon.
Its hard to keep morale up especially as some of the staff in higher grades are not fit for purpose or just generally incompetant with no drive or ambition to improve the efficiency or morale of their workplace.
I would discourage anyone else from leaving the private sector to come into the public sector on a lower grade at the moment at least until grade 4 and 5 jobs become available which is not going to happen any time soon.
I think a few years before you joined it was a lot easier to progress. I know a few people who joined as CO's in 1999, spending a year or two at most at that. They are HEO or equivalent now.
My comment was not specifically referencing salaries, but the entire terms and conditions of employment (to include tea breaks, pensions, sick days, days off to go to the Galway Races or whatever
) - I'm all for paying the civil servants more, when they give genuine increased productivity where needed etc. I'd rather see the younger, lower grade civil servants paid a bit more and lose some of the "fringe benefits" or work a few extra hours perhaps...mandelbrot
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My comment was not specifically referencing salaries, but the entire terms and conditions of employment (to include tea breaks, pensions, sick days, days off to go to the Galway Races or whatever
I've never worked in an office job where we didnt get paid tea breaks.
A CO paying A class PRSI gets a pension, would get a pension of c.7k on top of their state contributory pension.
Sick leave has been drastically reduced, why don't you inform yourself what it is and let me know how much less they should be allowed.
Days off to go to the races?
It’s good to see the state recruiting Civil Servants again. It’s an indication of a return to more normal times. Civil Servants provide much needed services for the state. Without a good Civil Service a state cannot function. This is not however a boost to the economy or anything like that as state employees do not generate wealth like primary producers or those in the export sector. That’s not Public or Civil Service bashing, it’s just the way it is. Lots of people work hard in jobs that provide essential services but don’t boost the economy. That doesn’t make them or those jobs less important.
So are you saying that money spent by public servants in the Irish economy for goods and services does nothing to create wealth in ireland?? I'm sure that there are many businesses in this country that welcome the personal expenditure by public servants.
Mr. Earl: the 1980's have called and asked for their Civil Servants stereotype back...
It's tax and spend. The money is taken out of the in taxes and returned through expenditure by PS/CS employees. There's no net gain. I'm not saying that they don't add value or do good work, it's just not economic value.
It's like being back in 2008 again.
mandelbrot
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I suppose it's an important lesson for people like me, in the PS, to learn - there'll ALWAYS be a cohort (a noisy one at that) who will never be pleased no matter how much wages, conditions, pensions etc. are cut by.
I supported Croke Park & Haddington Road, but those measures have done more than enough in my view. Morale is now on the floor.
I supported Croke Park & Haddington Road, but those measures have done more than enough in my view. Morale is now on the floor.
There is because the expenditure multiplier is greater than the tax multiplier.
Let's be honest, it's not a well-informed guess.
The Civil Service consists of about 36,000 people, most of whom work directly in Govt departments, or a few select agencies like Revenue, OPW, PAS. This is about 3,000 down from 2008. The latest round of recruitment is indeed for the civil service. If you think that Govt are going to let the numbers get anywhere near the 2008 number, you are wrong.
I've no idea what numbers are intended to be recruited in this round. My uninformed guess is that it will be lucky to hit 3-figures. If you want to have a well-informed guess, inform it by giving PAS or Dept PER a call.
mandelbrot
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It'll comfortably hit 3 figures for the civil service alone, I'd have no doubt about that - if one assumes that roughly 40% of the CS headcount is made up of Clerical Officers, that's about 14,000. As no new CO's have been hired since pre-2008 that would suggest that, at a minimum (assuming 2% natural wastage p.a., which is very conservative given the age demographic) at the very least 1,500 of the 3,000 fall in numbers is at CO level.
So even if the intention is to replace only 30% of the vacated positions you'd be talking about 500 jobs.
That's an educated, but still relatively uninformed, guess!