working an unpaid trial for 4 days

J

jamieb

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Hi

I recently got my son an interview with a convenience store - it was through work that I do myself that I came in contact this this gentleman. He asked me to have my 17 year old call him when he got his school holidays. Last week he called and met with the prospective employer on Monday. He agreed to do 7am til 3pm from Tuesday to Friday. He told me he would not be paid this week, I actually thought my son got his wires crossed and that the guy meant he had to do a back week. I have to say my son loves his bed but was up each morning at 6am and off to work. The shop was rough enough and he dealt with some characters. He was on the till immediately and the owner told him as long as there was no major F ups he had a job. Today he met with him and was told he was a bit slow firstly - I can understand this as my son is quite the perfectionist and learning the cigarettes and lotto, paying bills in the shop and a whole host of things as well as stacking and facing off he was only beginning to get into his stride. The employer said that he could get 20 people better than him and that he could come in again next week (unpaid) and that next saturday (not tomorrow) he could work 12 to 3 and he would pay him for that!! He bought his lunch and drinks there all week so spent 10 euro a day in the shop and the employer didnt as much as offer him a sandwich. He got just 15 minutes break a day and now he wants him to do it all again. Ive had a row with my son - he wants to do it but I am trying to get him to see that this is totally unscrupulous but he has stormed off slamming doors. Any advice??
 
Let him do it. Agree with your son if the situation remains unchanged by the end of week 2 that he'll walk away from the situation.

Your son obviously likes the job - rising out of his bed at 6.00 a.m. with no prospect of pay isn't detering him.
 
Thanks Paddy but the situation is that it is costing money for him to get there - me also up at 6 am to drive him there which I dont mine if it was fruitful but I am really disgusted that the shop would not even offer him a bit of lunch. I think if this was the case I would see him as getting training and getting fed.
 
Could be a life-lesson for your son, if it doesn't work out. May also be embarrassing for him if it doesn't, so go easy.
 
OK well he now tells me he is not going back and decided this himself - he also tells me he was told to say he was 18 if anyone asked so he could sell alcohol and cigarettes all of this week. I was not aware of this - so I am now disgusted even more!!
 
Hi, it may seem to you that your son is being exploited but what about him ? He doesn't seem to think so.

He did his days work getting up reeeal early so he seems to like the fact that he is starting a job. Be glad for him. I know your own experience of life is telling you that he may be taken advantage of but if he has taken to slamming the door about it, it means something to him.

Give him his head on this , encourage him to go, be as positive as possible and think of the many mothers who would wish their sons would get themselves out of bed at six.

I do not for a minute condone exploitation but another few days of he doing this will clarify the situation . It will show whether the employer is the real deal or not and it may be the start of a great future for your son.

If it turns out that he was taken advantage of , your son will learn so much about how life can be and he will end up the wiser for it .

For you, not easy rising at 6 for no return ! Except the slamming of doors but I've done the early rising, delivered the son to apprenticeship, collected the son, met the exploitative employer but also met the great one . So stay with it for the next week and both you and your son will learn much, hopefully positive.
 
Lesson learnt! I've heard some restaurants do the same; invariably the person is too slow and fails their 'probation'.
 
Yes Kildavin - I checked with a HR friend of mine - she was not familiar with the retail sector but confirmed it does happen in the hospitality sector. He had originally decided to do voluntary work in one of the charity shops and at least this was no pay for rewarding work rather than no pay and lining someones pockets. So he has real feeling for the homeless after a transition year project so has decided to do some volunteering in a Simon shop or something for Focus. He frequently goes down Grafton street and knows quite a few of the big Issue sellers and will buy them a cup of tea -so at least he will learn values and do something rewarding if he does charity work. I think he has come to the right decision myself!!
 
Who can sell alcohol?
Only persons aged 18 years or over may sell alcohol otherwise a criminal offence will be committed.
If you are under 18 you may carry out general duties in the shop or may make non liquor sales only.
Persons employed in either a Supermarket, Convenience Store or Petrol Station who are under 18 years of age, may not
under any circumstances go behind the counter to serve a customer alcohol.
If you are under 18 and you are operating a non alcohol payment register or a customer presents alcohol during the
transaction you must:
• Call the Manager or a member of staff who is 18 or over.
• You may scan non alcoholic items while you are waiting.
• Your manager or staff member over 18 will scan the alcoholic items and will complete the transaction and take the
payment – you must not scan the alcohol and complete the transaction.
Click to expand...

[broken link removed]

Your son is breaking the law by selling alcohol, you may think I am over reacting, but do you think this guy is going to stand up for your son if he serves a Garda plant?
 
jamieb said:
OK well he now tells me he is not going back and decided this himself - he also tells me he was told to say he was 18 if anyone asked so he could sell alcohol and cigarettes all of this week. I was not aware of this - so I am now disgusted even more!!
Click to expand...

I withdraw what I said in my earlier post on reading this. That's illegal.
 
Yes Guinea Pig - I have explained all of this to him - he was again put in a position and taken advantage of- is it not the responsibility of the shop or is it on the person serving - I am unclear on this!!
 
Asking your son to break the law tells me all I need to hear about the scruples of the shop owner.

He shouldn't dream of going back there.
 
jamieb said:
is it not the responsibility of the shop or is it on the person serving - I am unclear on this!!
Click to expand...

Copied from page 9 of the legislation referred to above and shows that both can suffer:

Penalties For The Sale Of Alcohol To Underage Persons
Temporary Closure Orders And Fines For Sale Of Alcohol
To Underage Persons
If a licence holder is convicted of selling to underage drinkers, or of another offence under the Licensing Acts, as referred
to below, the Court has no discretion and must impose a Temporary Closure Order on the premises as well as a stiff fine.
During the period of the closure order the premises is closed in its entirety and no business, even non liquor business, can
be carried out.
Penalties for the sale of alcohol to underage persons may include:
• Temporary closure orders are mandatory and the Judge has no discretion.
• For a first offence the closure will be up to a maximum of 7 days.
• For a second offence the closure will be for a minimum of 7 days up to a maximum of 30 days.
• A conviction under the Licensing Acts may lead to an endorsement on the Licence, Fines and Negative Publicity (as
a sign stating why the premises is closed has to be clearly displayed in a prominent position at the premises).
• Fines of €1,000 for a first offence and €1,500 for second or subsequent offences may be imposed.
Aiding And Abetting
Employees who sell alcohol to underage drinkers can themselves be prosecuted for “aiding and abetting”.
While the prime responsibility for such matters lies with the licence holder legal responsibility also lies with the person
involved in the transaction. An Garda Síochána are now prosecuting employees who have been involved in underage sales
on a regular basis as well as the licence holders themselves.

=============================================

This relevant AAM thread makes for interesting reading also.
 
Thank you all for your information and advice - he is not going back there and realises now the gravity of the situation he found himself in. I think a lesson learnt is the best we can take from it.
 
Reading through this forum it is not easy to see that many look at the employment situation through rose tinted glasses. Worse again some believe in that rubbish that Bill 'Work-for-Nothing' Cullen comes up with. Furthermore, many believe that everything is above board in all our retail outlets.

I could bring you into popular pubs where the staff is not paid after official closing time. Time spent working in the pub serving after hours and cleaning up is at nil pay. Remember this is the early hours of the morning and usually at weekends. Try to prosecute these employers and you are wasting your time. Many of the employees are paid at less than the minimum wage and probably cash-in-hand without any social welfare stamp either.

The hospitality industry is full of this stuff and not short of owners/managers coming up with bright ideas to get people to work for no pay.
 
Leper said:
The hospitality industry is full of this stuff and not short of owners/managers coming up with bright ideas to get people to work for no pay.
Click to expand...

Very true,

A student niece of mine recently got a trial in a well known Dublin pub/eatery as a waitress, worked 8 hours on a Saturday night with another girl also on trial, both unpaid. Neither of them was deemed suitable.

They have since learned of several others who were unsuccessful in recent times, apparently the pub is well known for giving trials, but nobody ever gets the job as there is a constant stream of free hopefuls.

I am also aware of this happening in a well-known hotel chain.

Neither ever get my custom anymore.
 
Yes twofor1 - I actually heard yesterday about a well known pub/eatery who is renowned for this with young students - Im sure it is the same one. Maybe it goes on a lot but is not highlighted !
 
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