T McGibney
Registered User
- Messages
- 6,199
Why apply a different standard to rural Ireland, Brendan?
But if someone sells their property in rural Ireland for 40% more than they valued it 15 months ago, then they undervalued the property and need to pay more LPT.
Why apply a different standard to rural Ireland, Brendan?
Why apply a different standard to rural Ireland, Brendan?
Because rural houses haven't risen by the same % as houses in Dublin so it is harder to justify a hugely different sale price to the submitted valuation.
He is probably thinking that "rural Ireland" is lagging in house price rises and the next jump may happen there (Already happened in Cities).
A bit touchy, huh?
But this assumes that the sort of unanticipated scenario that has become commonplace in Dublin recently - ie, two or more bidders bid against each other for a property, and drive the price well above the previous going rate - will never occur in other cities or towns or in the countryside.
How is such an assumption safe?
It was extremely difficult to value homes in the countryside for LPT as there was so little movement in the market to compare against in the years previous to 2013.
In town estates there were some sales, so approx comparative valuations were feasible. It could be assumed that such sales in the future will attract 2 or more bidders as presently there are so few new builds.
The % increase may be 30 indeed but this would be on a very low base. An example here in a rural town :120000 3 bed semi which was 300000 at the height.
With 30% increase such a property would edge into a higher valuation bracket at 156000 still leaving it at almost 50% of its highest value. The value placed at May 2013 was true and verifiable yet it is quite possible that 30% increase will occur in 2015 because of the upward trend.
Sorry, this is a discussion forum. Feel free to ignore my posts if you wish, but I am making a genuine point here, so there's no need for you to question my motivation, thanks
There's often no slack from the middle of a band to absorb any of that 15%. Most people valued their house for property tax at the top of the lowest reasonable band.The 15% refers to the top of the band though.
So using your example a house valued at 120k would have to increase to 172,500 (150k x 115%), before there'd be any potential issue.
There's often no slack from the middle of a band to absorb any of that 15%. Most people valued their house for property tax at the top of the lowest reasonable band.
Possibly if the bands had been 275-325, instead of 250-300 then the range that people mentally value their property might have fitted better with the tax bands. I assume more people like to think their house is worth around 200k, 350k, 400k etc, than around the actual midpoints of the tax bands such as 375k or 325k.
It now seems you've got to pick the top of your range if you intend to sell within 3 years to minimize future property tax problems, if you think your house is worth 280-320k you better pick the 320 band even though you know if forced to sell now you're unlikely to get that figure.
But if someone sells their property in rural Ireland for 40% more than they valued it 15 months ago, then they undervalued the property and need to pay more LPT.
But this assumes that the sort of unanticipated scenario that has become commonplace in Dublin recently - ie, two or more bidders bid against each other for a property, and drive the price well above the previous going rate - will never occur in other cities or towns or in the countryside.
How is such an assumption safe?
The 15% is a bit low, but the principle is correct.
Maybe issue a monthly index to reflect the movement in house prices? Adjust this for the different counties?
Maybe add an extra 5% for unique factors.
But if someone sells their property in rural Ireland for 40% more than they valued it 15 months ago, then they undervalued the property and need to pay more LPT.
The 15% is a bit low, but the principle is correct.
Maybe issue a monthly index to reflect the movement in house prices? Adjust this for the different counties?
Maybe add an extra 5% for unique factors.
But if someone sells their property in rural Ireland for 40% more than they valued it 15 months ago, then they undervalued the property and need to pay more LPT.
It was very difficult to judge market value in May 2013.
As a real life example - we valued a property in May 2013 as band "x". A neighbour's house sold in Nov 2013 at €7,000 over the top of that band. There was some movement upwards in the market by then so I would still say we valued correctly in May that year.
Two estate agents who valued my house last week think my house will now sell at a value two bands higher than my neighbour's did less than one year ago, ie: over 100k more.
So my original valuation is now three bands below today's value. I could be one of those people that Revenue says deliberately undervalued - but I genuinely don't think so. When it comes to selling your house - I reckon plenty of people will end up sighing & paying Revenue extra unjustified money just to make sure the sale goes ahead.
Either a valuation from May 2013 stands for three years or it doesn't.
It does stand, of course it does.
In your case the sale of the similar property for 7k more, would support your valuation in the lower band 6months earlier (I'm assuming 7k is less than 15% of the upper end of the band), so I'm not sure what your problem is..?