Irish cases involving Roma children

DB74

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I have to say I find both these cases disgraceful and very disturbing.

Alan Shatter should resign as Minister for Justice.
 
Why should Alan Shatter resign! If you said the head of the HSE or Gardai who organised this screw up should go, then I'd agree with you
 
Not a fan of Shatter but why should he resign? There are some unsettling elements to this case but if the children hadn't been theirs and the Guards and HSE hadn't acted, then you can imagine the reaction. Having said that, the child should not have been removed unless it was in obvious danger and there was never a suggestion of that. Still, if I had to make a call of that nature and I had doubts I would risk removing the child for 24 hours so not going to hang the people involved.

We are going to see huge national outrage on this topic now but we need to be honest about our own prejudices towards the Roma population before we go looking for villains in this case. I know my attitude towards them is anything but politically correct. I see some national papers are now acting like champions of the Roma people. Be interesting to go back and see some of the stories they have written over the years.
 
It appears to me that everyone acted in good faith. I think the protocol should be developed/communicated/enfoirced that dont remove unless danger. You can park a squad car outside the house, take passports etc. if flight risk is an issue.

So it was a bit heavy handed and the family are due an apology and things should be a bit more sensitively dealt with next time but I dont think we should overreact in the other direction - put it this way would you feel the State has traditionally overreacted or underreacted to child welfare issues?

So I dont think anyone needs to resign or have action taken against them.
 
I wonder will these two families ask to be transferred to other localites ? hard to see how they could be refused after this.
 
I think it's long overdue that the state took a more proactive role in child protection. It is unfortunate that these two cases involved ethnic minorities.
 
We are going to see huge national outrage on this topic now ...
I see some national papers are now acting like champions of the Roma people.
I really don't think either of these reflect the general mood (and perhaps that has something to do with feelings towards the Roma more than the circumstances of this case). Have to say I'm just vexed knowing that there will undoubtedly be a large compensation case following on from this.
 
I really don't think either of these reflect the general mood (and perhaps that has something to do with feelings towards the Roma more than the circumstances of this case). Have to say I'm just vexed knowing that there will undoubtedly be a large compensation case following on from this.

Don't forget the legal profession...they'll clean up out of this also, on all sides.
And the Consultants...there'll be a lot of reports to be written, recommendations to be made (largely ignored after)
 
This might put a stop to the little hitlers that are social workers in the HSE.
 
It's not that long ago that the HSE and Gardai were being lambasted for not acting when there were allegations of children being at risk.
So in these sort of circumstances, there will always be a risk that whether they act or don't act that they get it wrong. Hindsight is always correct.
So do we now run the risk that the authorities will be less likely to act in future cases, particularly in cases involving Roma, because of the hysterical reaction following these two cases?

As usual now we see Claire Daly wading in. She just cannot pass up any opportunity to have a go at the Gardai.
 
It's not that long ago that the HSE and Gardai were being lambasted for not acting when there were allegations of children being at risk.
So in these sort of circumstances, there will always be a risk that whether they act or don't act that they get it wrong. Hindsight is always correct.
So do we now run the risk that the authorities will be less likely to act in future cases, particularly in cases involving Roma, because of the hysterical reaction following these two cases?

As usual now we see Claire Daly wading in. She just cannot pass up any opportunity to have a go at the Gardai.
I wonder why?
 
No one who has never made a mistake never made anything. If they left the child there and the family left the country they authorities would have been criticised too.
 
It's not that long ago that the HSE and Gardai were being lambasted for not acting when there were allegations of children being at risk.
So in these sort of circumstances, there will always be a risk that whether they act or don't act that they get it wrong. Hindsight is always correct.
So do we now run the risk that the authorities will be less likely to act in future cases, particularly in cases involving Roma, because of the hysterical reaction following these two cases?

As usual now we see Claire Daly wading in. She just cannot pass up any opportunity to have a go at the Gardai.

Agree 100% also that Claire Daly reminds me of that old hag you would see in those old black and white films about the French revolution,sitting knitting beside, the guillotine,constantly looking around suspiciously for aristocrats in disguise.
 
we either support child safety or we dont bother , there was a doubt and the childs interests were prioritised , unfortunate that it was racially motivated but theres far too many dead and missing kids for anyone to be complacent, yes it turned out ok in the end , guards had to mske a call didn't do it for a laugh im sure
 
but what about the horrific ordeal this child and her family were put through...can the same thing be let happen again! ?
 
we either support child safety or we dont bother , there was a doubt and the childs interests were prioritised , unfortunate that it was racially motivated but theres far too many dead and missing kids for anyone to be complacent, yes it turned out ok in the end , guards had to mske a call didn't do it for a laugh im sure

Erm, really? So it isn't possible to be in support of child safety, but not be in favour of unchecked separation of parents and children? Given the HSE's record with children in danger, I'd say that putting them into the care of the state is much more unsafe, but then I'm prone to ridiculous statements too.

I can be fully in favour of child safety, but completely against the Gardai turning up and taking children away on general assumptions of parentage rather than based upon evidence.

unfortunate that it was racially motivated

It's more than unfortunate as it was the only motivation for the removal of the children. I have various friends who have adopted children from China and Africa, they couldn't look any more different to their kids and are not genetically related. Guess how many times they've been visited for child safety reasons?

Occasionally in my own family there is a child with very fair hair and skin complextion even though the predominant colouring is darker. Guess how many times we've been visited by Gardai?

The case came from local gossip and speculation based on racism and the Gardai response was based on racism. The power to separate a child from their parents cannot be based on such spurious evidence.
 
I am stunned by the reaction to these cases.

How would you react if an agent of the state came into your home and took your child away.

Compensation my foot, the death penalty is too good for these gardai/social workers!

If it was my child that is what they would get
 
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