Returning to Ireland - Rent, Buy or Build

I have worked overseas for 3 years and my wife, kids and I are contemplating moving back to Ireland. I work as a Quantity Surveyor so I realise jobs are scarce. Most of the jobs seem to be in Dublin. I own a plot of land in Tipperary (near Cashel and motorway), which is on the family farm and I have planning. It is due to expire in January 2016. We have the option of building a house on this plot without a mortgage and use this as a base to try and get work in Munster or commute to Dublin. We would like our kids to grow up in the countryside etc. Of course, we are also nervous about moving to the countryside as we have both lived in urban centres for nearly 15 years. Also, we feel we will never be able to afford Dublin even though we have over 380k EURO in cash (we don't want to put all our eggs in one basket).

Are we crazy doing this? Should we wait until I get a job and rent in the meantime? All advice welcome especially from people who have moved back to Ireland.

Sort out work first, then rent a house for a year & then you'll be certain of what your priorities are.

Hi Monte

Agree with Thirsty. Move back and find a job. Then sort out where you want to live.

If you want to live in the countryside and work as a QS, it may take some time to find a job. You might start working in Dublin, but then move after a year or two.

we feel we will never be able to afford Dublin even though we have over 380k EURO in cash

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You can get a mortgage and you will be well able to afford a house in Dublin.
Or rent for a while and house prices may fall. Of course, they may rise. No one knows.

Brendan

The commute from Cashel to Dublin or Cork would be possible but could be too tiring, expensive or dangerous.
You could stay in Dublin / Cork an odd night to recuperate on sleep.

I think you are right about getting a job first, then renting and then maybe buying. The big deciding factor at the moment is whether to build or not as the planning permission expires in January 2016 so we would have to start building in 2015. However, there are still alot of unknowns for us at the moment regarding jobs, commuting etc and we dont want to end up spending 200k euro building a house when we may end up having to sell it at a loss to free up some cash to buy elsewhere.

Then there is the separate issue of country vs city living. Even though our site is near a school, near Tipperary and Cashel etc we are still isolated. And this would add further pressure to us if one of us is commuting every day. Furthermore, even though we left Tipperary 15 years ago we feel it will take time for us to adjust back to country living etc. Even on our visits home we feel we are treated as "outsiders".

Presumably you can reapply for planning permission?

It can be difficult to sell a property built on family land.

Maybe sell the site?

To give you some sort of reference, I live in Lucan. Houses in my estate (I don't know about the wider area) are about €300k to €320k for a three bedroom house, not very large but not too small either. There are a lot of schools both primary and secondary around. They are quite busy, but they are also quite new as there has been a lot of building in the area over the last 20 years. We are close to the schools, close to shops and on a fairly regular bus route to the city center. When going "down the country" we can be on the Naas road in about 10 minutes as we are out on that side of the city. Because we are close to the M50 we can get most places in Dublin fairly easily being also half way between north and south Dublin.

Lucan may not be the best example, and may not suit you at all, what I am trying to say is that you will find places everywhere that are reasonable and accessible, it's a question of looking and asking people.

Best of luck!

An option might be to extend the planning permission to give you some breathing space - I have seen a lot of planning extensions recently so it may be an option also for you. The first thing however if you are returning to Ireland is to understand where you will secure work, after that all the other bits fall into place.
From experience, long distance commuting is possible but can very stressful if your job also includes a lot of stress. As RichInSpirit says spending a night or two away can help to recoup. Commuting means have a decent car, extra cost on fuel etc but also extra cost for those essential nights you will need to be away to maintain sanity.

Great advice. Thank you. Yes, we have been keeping a close eye on house prices and there are still options in certain parts of Dublin. I agree that Dublin is an accessible city and it is no distance to get out into more rural areas. We rented in Knocklyon for a few years but the house prices seem to be out of our range.

Woodie, what is the best way to extend planning permission? Is it just a case of contacting the county council and explaining my situation etc?

Monte2014 - I'm not a planner by any means but as far as I know it is officially called Extension of Duration, your council will have the details. I understand that it is sort of a reapplication but under the rules of todays planning regs, so you might need to supply extra information. I guess the person who managed your original planning will be able to help.
I only know because friend of mine went through the process but not being entirely nerdy interested ( I know, how rude of me) the details sort of went over my head. If I discover some info I'll post again.

If you contact your Local Council and they will send you a form to fill up for the Extension of Planning. I understand you can only apply for the extension if you are within 2 or 3 months of it expiring, I think you said yours does not expire until 2016. Your local Council will give you all that detail.

Monte2014 said:

I have worked overseas for 3 years and my wife, kids and I are contemplating moving back to Ireland. I work as a Quantity Surveyor so I realise jobs are scarce. Most of the jobs seem to be in Dublin. I own a plot of land in Tipperary (near Cashel and motorway), which is on the family farm and I have planning. It is due to expire in January 2016. We have the option of building a house on this plot without a mortgage and use this as a base to try and get work in Munster or commute to Dublin. We would like our kids to grow up in the countryside etc. Of course, we are also nervous about moving to the countryside as we have both lived in urban centres for nearly 15 years. Also, we feel we will never be able to afford Dublin even though we have over 380k EURO in cash (we don't want to put all our eggs in one basket).

Are we crazy doing this? Should we wait until I get a job and rent in the meantime? All advice welcome especially from people who have moved back to Ireland.

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You would be crazy to build in Tipperary if you are going to work in Dublin. Most good jobs are in Dublin and other urban areas. Don't understand how you cannot afford Dublin with nearly 400K already. Plus a site.

It is not doable to commute from Tipp to Dublin if you want any kind of life. You have a spouse and kids, you will never see them and you will be stressed out. It takes two hours from Galway and Waterford to Dublin with zero traffic and motorways all the way. Have you seen the traffic going into Dublin on a work morning ! I do it occasionally and I get stressed heading to the airport. Cannot imagine what it would be like to do daily, and that's without having to get to a 'certain' point in Dublin.

As for going rural for the kids, I can see the attraction of it and was brought up in a farm, but like you I've lived urban for too long to even contemplate the nightmare that I would find that now.

So my advise is to rent where the job is but if you really think you're going to live in Tipp, then instead rent there for a year and see how you take to it. Are you under pressure from your family to 'live' on the family farm?

Bronte. I think you are right in what you are saying. It is interesting that you mention the family farm. I am due to inherit the family farm (120 acres) from my mum, which has been rented to the same farmer for the past few years. She has said she would prefer to leave it to me when she passes as she depends on the farm rental income, which is fully understandable and we all support her on this. As I am 38 I would like to go farming part time and try and pick up a part time job as well. Up to the age of 40 I am considered a young farmer and this has some benefits in terms of CAP reform etc. My mum is 76 and of course I hope she continues to lead a long and healthy life. However, I think it would be difficult for me to enter farming after the age of 40 or 50.

My mum is saying why don't I build the house and try and get work in Munster but we would prefer to build the house and commence a farming enterprise as well. We know we would be earning less money but it is a lifestyle choice etc.

So I think the best solution is to leave everything as it is for now and I focus on getting a good job in Ireland and renting in the meantime until we are settled. The dream of living in the countryside and farming etc will have to be put on hold in the meantime.