Will Government take deposits?

jonocon

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I'm starting to get worried about my deposits in Irish Bank (PTSB), As I see it the government have taken the first step towards deposits by dipping into peoples pensions. Does anyone have advice for me as I am about to move my money in EBS tomorrow morning for 1 yr 6 months as its the best rate. thanks
 
Read Key Post - How to protect your deposits. The most salient point for me was not to tie up your money in any long-term account just in case you need to move it. You might lose some interest in the short-term but you might have more peace of mind for the present.
 
I'm starting to get worried about my deposits in Irish Bank (PTSB), As I see it the government have taken the first step towards deposits by dipping into peoples pensions. Does anyone have advice for me as I am about to move my money in EBS tomorrow morning for 1 yr 6 months as its the best rate. thanks

I feel that they will not touch deposit as it would completely the irish banks as no one would ever trust them again. Also it would not look too good for the EU they would have something to say about it.

I expect if they do default they will go back to sterling again, as it would cost too much to bring back the irish pound but who knows what the government have got up their sleeve. :confused:
 
thanks guys, if we do default and revert back to the punt, or indeed sterling, how will that affect deposits? Is it safer to have deposits in a foreign bank, like Ulster Bank?
 
It's now not safe to leave deposits in Irish banks for two reasons:

1. When Ireland defaults your money could be converted in a new currency and you'll lose loads. There might also be restrictions on withdrawals.

2. The Irish government may just simply help themselves to your deposits like they have done with pension funds.
 
I feel that pensions funds are totally different to deposits in banks. Regarding Ulster that comes under UK and is safe to put money in there up to the amount of £85,000 which the UK government will gurantees.
 
What about deposits with Nationwide UK Ireland? They are protected by the British Scheme. But are they technically an Irish bank / building society which the Government could dip in to?
 
If that is the case then the AIB in UK would be very safe as it would be technically UK Bank.
 
Although they could simply go after all residents' accounts in which case the whole arguement is moot. And makes it even worse for those in foreign currencies losing to exhange rate movements this year already.
 
There seems to be several types of banks, and thus deposits.

Irish owned banks, operating in Ireland.
Irish owned banks, operating in EU.
Irish owned banks, operating outside EU.

EU banks, operating in Ireland.
EU banks, operating outside Ireland, but inside the EU.
EU banks, operating outside the EU.

Foreign banks (non EU), operating in Ireland
Foreign banks (non EU), operating in EU.
Foreign banks (non EU), operating outside EU


So nine types there. Banks operating outside Ireland but inside the EU may be in the exact same legal position as banks operating outside the EU.

I'm not sure if all deposits in Irish banks can be 'confiscated',.. surely only those deposits made in Ireland can be affected. (i.e.. all deposits made to banks operating in Ireland, banks regulated by the Irish regulator, and perhaps some online deposits).

All deposits made to foreign banks, but made in Ireland and subject to the Irish Regulator are likely 'confiscatable'. Deposits made in foreign countires to these banks may or may not be safe. All banks claiming to take deposits subject to some other law than Irish law should be safe, .. if these companies are prepared to go to court to protect your property rights in their foreign jurisdiction, .. (i.e not roll over if our government makes an illegal demand on them to garnish your deposits.)

(For example, BullionVault in the UK will fight such a case in the UK courts, if Ireland passes a law making private gold ownership illegal.. this is in their terms and conditions. Can the Irish government overide such a condition in a foreign jurisdiction?, I'd suggest not, at least not easily. So banks seeking customers in Ireland should also make strong claims as to the safety of the deposits, and their safety from Irish Government grabbers)


Deposits made outside the EU, to non EU owned banks should be safe from the Irish government.

So which category is Keytrade, Belgium?
What about AIB UK?
What about Northern Island, any safe banks up there?
 
Although they could simply go after all residents' accounts in which case the whole arguement is moot. And makes it even worse for those in foreign currencies losing to exhange rate movements this year already.

Moving money abroad and into another currency is a whole different exercise, and would be aimed at protecting against a collapse of the Euro. You can have euro accounts even in countries that are not part of the EMU and thereby avoid currency risk.
 
So if you have an account in AIB in UK in euros that would be safe like Ulster bank in Ireland which comes under the umbrilla of RBS that would be safe despite it being in eruos, have I got it correct.
 
Well, what does the AIB account say? Under what jurisdiction is the contract? (Eg. this contract will be governed under UK law).

If governed under Irish law then it seems the government can pass a law tomorrow making the money theirs. It may be unconstitutional, but this would require a court case and the law would be in effect and legal until shot down. Confiscarting personal property may also be against EU law.
(Remember last year, when the rape laws were found to be unconstituational,.. yet all rapists weren't released, they were held in prison illegally while the government wrote new laws to imprision them.)


If deposits are governed under Uk law, then the Irish government can do nothing. But I'd be seeking a re-assurance from the bank, that they ignore all Irish laws, as they don't apply to them. I'd be wary of banks with physical branches in Ireland.


edited to add: I'd only be happy with these foreign banks if I had to travel to access them.. i.e you have to go to the UK or N. Ireland to make deposits etc. (Or online as per Keytrade, Belgium etc.. or BullionVault for gold)
 
Just related to this topic, if you move money to a euro account in northern ireland, do you have to first convert it into sterling and then back into euro? I know that this is a basic question, but worth asking.
 
AIBGB.UK say this..
13. These Terms & Conditions are
governed by the laws of England
and Wales and in the event of a
dispute the courts of England and
Wales have exclusive jurisdiction


and the account seems to be open to non-UK residents. I'd have thought that this account was safe from Gov.ie moneygrabbers. Anyone think it might not be?

Of course, Gov.UK might confiscate your cash. Gov.UK might selectively tax non-residents accounts to the hilt?,.. (would this discrimination between accounts be illegal under UK law?)

Personally I'd prefer to trust the UK Gov.
 
Can you find the T&C for Ulster Bank in Ireland. I would have though that non residents would be exempt from tax in UK as they would be stating that they non residents and would sign a declaration to this effect that the depositor does not reside in UK therefore tax would be charged in accordance with Irish tax system.
 
I've been sceptical of the Irish economy for years (mid-2000s) and in general I don't trust anyone in power (you don't get power by being a nice guy), but I really don't think the government will touch deposits. It is far too extreme and would cause utter chaos in the EU. I would imagine the ECB would happily print X billion and give it to the government rather than allow them to steal X billion from the banks.

I have my savings in a non-Irish bank outside Ireland.
 
Yes, different banks will have different guarantee schemes.

The Ulster bank seems to have an account governed under N.I law


(iv) The laws of Northern Ireland apply to the contract between you and us. The law which
we take as the basis for establishing relations with you prior to the conclusion of the
contract is the law of Northern Ireland. The courts of Northern Ireland shall have nonexclusive jurisdiction over any disputes arising between you and us that are not resolved
by other means.


I'd be worried about 'non exclusive'.. what does that mean? I'd be asking for clarification, and if none was coming I'd be going elsewhere. (For example, AIB GB use the word exclusive as would most if not all other contracts)
 
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