Was my hubbie unfairly dismissed?

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ailbhe

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Hi all,

Hubbie had his annual meeting last weeek. Has been with the company for 8 years and worked his way up to General Manager. At his meeting last year there were some minor issues, most of which he rectified this year (sales up, wages down etc).
He was then told in this meeting (nobody representing him) that he was being let go. His choice was to take 3 months wages, bonus and holidays and get a good reference or (and I quote) "there's the door".
The condition was that he have his resignation in by the following morning. He panicked and sent it in.

The issues which they pointed out to him (reason for dismissal) were that merchandising wasn't up to scratch ie shop didn't look good enough.

They did mention this but never in a "if-you-don't-sort-it-you-lose-your-job" kind of way.
Hubby would have done anything to keep his job. He is never late, never off sick, has relocated 3 times in 3 years at their request.

What should we do? It just seems so unfair! He is the main breadwinner, we have small kids and now facr losing our house.
 
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What, if any, reasons was he given for his dismissal? If it was an alleged performance/misconduct issue then was the relevant company disciplinary policy followed and was he given verbal and/or written warnings etc. along the way? There are also statutory rights in this area. On the face if things it sounds very dodgy. If I was you/him I'd contact the DETE Employment Rights section and ask them for advice on statutory rights in this area. CitizensInformation might also have some relevant info.
 
I think you need to get some advice. First of all, does the company have dismissal procedures? Even if the company felt that his performance was not up to scratch there should have been a process of some sort i.e. a warning followed by a written warning etc. What does his contract say?
It would seem to me to be quite harsh to be dismissed in this way after 8 years service and relocating etc. Check out the contract etc and ring the Department of Enterprise Trade and Employment. They are very nice and quite helpful.
 
The reasons were as stated. On visits over the year the shop wasn't "up to their standard". There was a long queue at one till, the shelves weren't merchandised correctly.
This was mentioned 12 months ago and is the only thing that could be considered a verbal warning though it wasn't stated at the time. No other warnings or written warnings. There are 2 MDs. One said he wasn't happy, the other is always full of compliments when he visits.
our solicitor has said hubbie compromised his case by resigning. He is also friends with the MD though so we're not sure whether to believe him!
 
What was his employment status - e.g. was he an employee or some sort of independent contractor? That could also be relevant in relation to enforcing employment rights. I didn't realise that he had actually resigned. However it might be interpreted that he was coerced into doing this. I presume that your solicitor should know better about the legalities than me or anybody else posting here. However do check out the DETE and CI link/contacts.

In the meantime has your husband at least signed on at the local SW office to claim any unemployment and/or family benefits/allowances to which he might be entitled? And he should also [broken link removed] any tax paid to date if he is unemployed for a while.
 
What was his employment status - e.g. was he an employee or some sort of independent contractor? That could also be relevant in relation to enforcing employment rights. I didn't realise that he had actually resigned. However it might be interpreted that he was coerced into doing this. I presume that your solicitor should know better about the legalities than me or anybody else posting here. However do check out the DETE and CI link/contacts.


He's an employee for a national chain of stores. Started as a general assistant when he left school and worked his way up over the last few years. Will check out those links. Thanks.
He has looked into signing on but as he "resigned" he has to wait 6 weeks.
 
He has looked into signing on but as he "resigned" he has to wait 6 weeks.
Did SW tell you this? I think that he should sign on immediately and if there is a delay in obtaining any benefit/allowance payments then SW will tell him. He should not delay signing on unless he has tried already and SW told him to come back later.

Is he a member of a union or does any union represent any of the employees of this company?
 
our solicitor has said hubbie compromised his case by resigning. He is also friends with the MD though so we're not sure whether to believe him!

Could you arrange a consultation with an independant solicitor? Who else was at the meeting where he was asked to resign?
 
Hi,

I'm not a solicitor but the way in which his options were presented sounds as though his resignation could be considered constructive dismissal. I'd second Clubman's recommendation to contact DETE regarding this. Also, speaking from personal experience, I found that not all solicitors are familiar with this field. I had an issue with employment rights and spoke to dozens, all of whom claimed to be experts in employment law but most of whom were clueless. I'd advise getting as much info on the subject as possible so you'll be able to weed out those who don't know their stuff. I wonder did your husband keep any notes of the 'verbal warnings' - what was said, what measures he took in response etc?

Good luck!
 
I know it mightn't seem like it now, but your husband's employer actually handled the issue better than most. In their eyes your hubby's work wasn't up to scratch, now they could always have went down the disciplinary route and eventually sacked him anyway. Then he would have been left with considerably less than he has got now, at least this way he gets 3 months wages + bonus and a good reference notwithstanding the fact that his employers weren't happy with his work.

I know that it can be hard but you both should try be as objective and honest with yourselves as possible about the whole thing. Indeed you should try see it from the employers point of view. You should also think long and hard about what you would hope to achieve by going down the legal route. Is it more money or maybe some sort of vindication? Either way you must also consider the inherent risks asociated with bringing proceedings. Eg. by pursuing any claim your husband may find it extremely difficult to get a job as many potential employers will view him as a troublemaker. Also, in the circumstances (and please don't takes this as legal advice- for that you should consult your solicitor) you mightn't necessarily have the strongest case of constructive dismissal ever.

If it was me in your husband's shoes, I would be hurt by the whole thing and of course my ego would have taken a bit of a bruising, but in the cold light of day I would probably come to realise that my ex-employer whilst they arguably could have handled it slightly better did treat me reasonably fairly. I would dust myself off and start looking for another job, who knows the way these things work out it might be the best thing that ever happened him. Enjoy the money and forget about it.
 
Hi,

I go along with what has been said and it seems to me that your husband was put in a situation where the stress/pressure of "there's the door", lack of warning or suport of a representative has not allowed him to respond/react in a fully informed manner. An employee has a right to know case against them,right to reply, right to fair treatment etc.

Definately go see a lawyer and as someone said earlier make sure its a firm that specialises in employment law. Check the websites for law practices etc. Gather all your information together.

Good luck
 
I know what you're sayings dats right and we have weighed it all up. We probably won't go down the legal route as it is so expensive. Its just that everyone who we have told has been shocked as he has really turned the store around since he took over. He met and exceeded all his yearly targets.

At this stage we are just taking the money and getting out. I can't however see it from his employers point of view as they didn't give him a chance! With no warnings how was he to know. I just can't believe companies can treat workers like this. He has been known to work 80 hour weeks at busy times and all his employees like him.
 
I know it mightn't seem like it now, but your husband's employer actually handled the issue better than most.

That's an outrageous thing to say. Assuming we're getting all the facts this poor guy has been treated appallingly given the service he has given the company.
 
We probably won't go down the legal route as it is so expensive.
I don't think that this is necessarily the case. You may not need independent legal advice although that would probably be a good idea. As far as I know the LRC/Rights Commissioner procedures should not cost much if anything assuming that you have a good case to take it that far.

Based on the information that you've posted so far the situation sounds far from acceptable in my non professional opinion and I, for one, would certainly be looking at taking the matter further and looking to see if there are statutory rights that were breached.

That's an outrageous thing to say. Assuming we're getting all the facts this poor guy has been treated appallingly given the service he has given the company.
I agree with you KalEl. It may or may not be that they handled it better than most but if this still means that they breached employment law and the employee's statutory rights then it's largely irrelevant.
 
The thing that is worrying us though is whether him taking a case will hinder his ability to get another job. Our solicitor told us that the reference is worth more than any money we could get. And while I can honestly say it isn't about the money we can't afford for him not to have a job! As this is the only job he has ever had he has no other references. Though the manager he worked under when he was assistant manager(who was shocked at the news) has said he will givve him a reference. This would only be on an assistant manager level though. Plus, if put under pressure from the company(he still works there) he might not be able to.

There is so much to think about!
 
The thing that is worrying us though is whether him taking a case will hinder his ability to get another job. Our solicitor told us that the reference is worth more than any money we could get. And while I can honestly say it isn't about the money we can't afford for him not to have a job! As this is the only job he has ever had he has no other references. Though the manager he worked under when he was assistant manager(who was shocked at the news) has said he will givve him a reference. This would only be on an assistant manager level though. Plus, if put under pressure from the company(he still works there) he might not be able to.

There is so much to think about!
I'm not sure what, if any, legislation might govern an employer threatening not to give a favourable reference but taken in conjunction with the rest of the company's alleged behaviour in this situation it certainly sounds unacceptable to me. You really need to get onto the DETE and see what they say. Once again, if it was me then I would not be letting this drop just yet.

I totally disagree with dats_right's take on this matter by the way but each to his own view.
 
If I was you I would not give up yet. I am not a lawyer but I do work in this area and have experience of unfair dismissals cases. You do not necessarily need to be represented by a lawyer unless there are major points of law to be argued, the rights commissioner or the tribunal will assist you to present your case and will cross examine the employer on your behalf. You could contact a trade union for advise. On the facts you have given, there is a case to answer. You have six months in which to lodge a case and if you really do not want to go through with it, you can withdraw before the case is called if you do not wish to proceed. By lodging the case and looking like you are willing to pursue it you at least may get into a position to negotiate a better deal including getting a reference. At the very least, go and take advise from someone with a little bit of a more robust attitude that the solicitor you have talked to. Good luck
 
I would just like to point out dats_right that if he hadn't been meeting targets or doing the work then I would agree with you and say the reference plus money is great.
But do you honestly think it's fair that their reason for sacking him was that on the 4 occasions they visited over the last year that once, there was a queue and a couple of other times there wasn't enough stock out in parts of the shop.
If they can do that then we'd all be losing our jobs!!
 
I would just like to point out dats_right that if he hadn't been meeting targets or doing the work then I would agree with you and say the reference plus money is great.
But do you honestly think it's fair that their reason for sacking him was that on the 4 occasions they visited over the last year that once, there was a queue and a couple of other times there wasn't enough stock out in parts of the shop.
If they can do that then we'd all be losing our jobs!!

I think you should take the other posters' advice talk to a union or employee rights body. Presenting someone with a fait accompli of "resign or be sacked" fits any definition of constructive dismissal I know.

On a more positive note there is a shortage of retail managers and a lot of opportunities so he shouldn't struggle to find employment.
Best of luck...and don't let this get you too down
 
I sympathise with yor plight. It seems way dodgy to me. if the employers case was as clearcut as some say, they had no need to give more than the statutory amount. From the sounds of it they are not in the charity business so it just not add up. You need legal advice.
If you PM me I can give you the details of a solicitor that is retained by one of the largest trade unions in the country and therefore deals in this regularally. My brother had a similar case-dismissed by letter-and took a case and employer did not turn up in the labour court to defend. Remember a lot of companies do not want this kind of publicity so that works in your favour.
 
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