New entrants getting higher salary than existing staff.

H

Hawthorn

Guest
The company that I work for has recently employed a number of new entrants. I have been training these people who all do like work as myself. I have discovered that these people are all starting on the same salary and in some instances higher salary than myself despite the fact that I have several years service with this company.
I have received a high rating in my recent appraisal.

Any advice?

:\
 
New Entrants

Do you have a title & job description for your position. Has the entry requirements increased, many companies are now requiring 3rd level education as standard.
Are you a member of a union? Could you join a union?
Do you have a staff association?
Equality legislation is not of any real use to you as it does not cover same gender issues.
 
large company

Hi,

I've come across this before... if you work in a large company I would suspect that it could be for beaurocratic reasons. They just might not be as on top of things as you think.

Why don't you simply mention it and see what happens. Maybe they are trying to save money in difficult times but still have to pay the new guys the market rate in order to attract employees.
 
Existing staff become part of the furniture.

Surely this type of carry on is illegal. One would imagine that if you had two or three years service then your existing salary would be two or three years ahead of new entrants? You would have your normal increments plus cost of living or, if on performance related pay been rewarded since you started?
It suggests that maybe you have not been rewarded properly or adequately since joining the company or that when you first started your employer chanced his arm and paid you at a lower rate than the going rate at the time.
 
Managers who don't care.

Hawthorn, sounds as if you are hurting? Let me guess.
You work for a large company, you are never late for work, take your hour for your lunch never a moment more, don't take cigarette breaks, never on sick leave, stay back to help out when short staffed, you spot mistakes and errors that save your company money, come up with good ideas (that someone else takes the credit for) are decent and honest and a hard worker.
You have a poor manager, work alongside people who go sick on a regular basis, nothing is ever said to the slackers and the dossers. Oh and appraisals are a bit of a joke in your office.
 
Re: Existing staff become part of the furniture.

Surely this type of carry on is illegal
Why? If I'm spectacularly useless at my job, I don't have a right to pay rises just because I've been useless for three years instead of one...
 
Advice

As you are training the new people, indicates a level of competence and that management hold you in a good level. Which probably pushes out the notion that you are a slacker etc..
Referring to your question, the advice I would give you , is say to management " It is common knowledge in the office the salary of the new new people, which as you know is more than what I get, even though they are been trained by me and doing the same job.." This is where you pause and say nothing (which is hard) and make him/her speak first.
There might be a reasonable explanation or not
good luck
 
Time for Action

It's hard to comment with all the facts, but its sounds very probable that they could not attract new employees without paying them more. This would imply that you are not being paid the going rate. I had the same problem. I was over worked and under paid and managing 6 other people (all at management level). My response was to go to my employers fully armed with the facts. Write a comprehensive list of duties that you carry out, any new business that you have brought in, efficiencies that you implemented, increased margins and/or productivity. Do you have to monitor their work, do your duties fall into the category of a supervisory role. Be prepared they will try and get away with it, their not going to apologies for neglecting you or trying to pull one over, so know what you want and focus on that. Don't think about what happened up till now, just focus on what you want out of the discussions. If you come across as moany, it won't work. You have to come across as reasonable. If you don't like what they offer. Tell them that based on your assessment there offer appears unjustified and you would like them to reconsider. Don't make any rash decisions and try and get loads of exercise, stress and frustration can turn even the sanest person into a physco.
 
Who is watching the appraisor?

The problem with appraisals is that the appraisor in one department might give someone a 4 but the appraisor in another department would probably give that same person a 3. The person doing the appraisals should be properly trained and monitored.

I have come across a situation where the appraisor herself was often late for work, enjoyed smoking breaks alongside the other smokers and spent hours on personal phone calls and internet surfing. Oh! and had her favourites who always received a higher score.
 
Re: Who is watching the appraisor?

Apraisels? - do people still fall for that bollox? - aren't they generally excuses for not giving you a pay increase?

I would suggest that you look for another job. When you've found one, you have scope to renegotiate. Companies will only pay you more if they are legally obliged, or you're walking out the door.
 
Re: Who is watching the appraisor?

When you've found one, you have scope to renegotiate.

This is rubbish - As a manager, if a staff comes to me with a better offer in their hand, I'll wish them best of luck in their new position. If somebody has made the decision to go, it's a waste of time to try to hold them with a few quid. They'll probably be gone in 3-6 months anyway, so might as well bite the bullet now.

This is not a sensible negotiation tactic.
 
Pay rise

The tactic of going to an employer with a new offer in hand has worked for me on many occasions before.

It's a bit headstrong to lose good staff, with years of expereince, because of a small risk that they might leave at some point in the future.
 
Re: Pay rise

Rainyday - are you any good at poker?
 
Re: Pay rise

Hi AP - No, I'm not.

However, the difference here is that your career is not a game - the stakes are very high.

If you walk into your boss with another job offer in your hand, your boss is never going to think about you the same way again.

When your boss is looking for a good candidate to promote, this will be a factor. When your boss is divvying up the 'bonus' budget, this will be a factor.

If you think you are underpaid, by all means, tell your boss & produce supporting evidence. If you want to leave & get another job, do so. But don't 'play the game' of bringing in the job offer just to get a salary increase.

Ireland is too small a world!
 
Re: Pay rise

Well the fact is that it may well work as a bargaining position in some cases and if you are willing to take the chance that your "bluff" may be called. I've never used it as such myself but have been asked what would it take me to stay when I announced my resignation. In all cases I had made my mind up so didn't engage in negotiations. However if I had been open to suggestion I might have reconsidered. That's life.
 
Spin!

Rainyday your painting things the way you want them to be!
A job offer from another employer is proof that the employee is worth more than the value that the current employer places on them.
If you are selling a house you'll take an offer from the highest bidder but you are of the opinion that it is somehow dishonourable to sell your labour to the highest bidder.

Any reasonable manager is able to differentiate between wage negotiations and performance with regard to job spec. and would be appraising staff on the basis of the latter rather than the former.

I put it to you that you resent that an ever larger proportion of your departmental budget is spent on salaries for your employees and are just scaremongering just to disuade employees from approaching their managers to ask for a fair wage. As a manager you put in your budget every year or quarter and find that you can't get that extra headcount or buy that extra piece of equipment if you pay your current staff slightly more so you have a vested interest in keeping salaries low.
You hate having to go to HR to try to get salaries increased and would rather keep wages low yourself rather than having to deal with HR. Do you find yourself acting like everyone in your place is replacable just so that your most important staff don't get any notions as to their real value to the company?
Rainyday, Is that how it is for you? Cos that's the way it works for any manager I've ever come accross.

Sorry Rainyday but I take exception to your post because it isn't the normally reasonable Rainyday speaking but Rainyday the 'Manager' posting under his username.
 
Re: Spin!

Hi Geoffrey - You're completely wrong! I'm not a manager in my current role, so your amateur psychology attempts to look inside my mind and picture me negotiating with HR are pure fiction. I was simply explaining how I would have approached this situation, when I was in a management role.

I accept that I was putting the position from the manager point of view. But anyone who goes into a negotiation without considering what the other side is going to be thinking is a fool.
 
salary negotiation and appraisal

Do you accept that salary negotiation in a company where the workforce is not organised has nothing to do with their performance in their current role or whether they qualify for bonuses or promotions.
 
Re: salary negotiation and appraisal

Do you accept that salary negotiation in a company where the workforce is not organised has nothing to do with their performance in their current role or whether they qualify for bonuses or promotions

No - not in any company that I've worked for. And I've worked in both union & non-union environments.
 
salary negotiation and appraisal

First things first , you get what you negociate not what you're worth. Secondly companies only pay enough to keep you happy rarely never more.
If you feel you're being underpaid, don't moan or windge about it. Get off your This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language & re-negociate a new salary based on facts & examples of why you deserve an increase. If they refuse, smile say thanks & go looking elsewhere . Don't burn bridges.
 
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