False Advertising by an estate agent

courier123

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Hi there,

We've paid a house deposit recently and realised afterwards that the estate agent lied about a few things in their online ad and in an e-mail to us. A house survey we have paid for has brought concrete evidence about that.

We haven't signed a contract yet, but I was wondering if it is common for estate agents to lie about the windows being double glazed when they are actually single glazed for instance.
I know estate agents try to use any means to sell but is there a body here in Ireland that regulates their dealings with their clients and what do they stipulate?

We don't want to create any problems to the estate agent so we kindly brought that to their attention, but the estate agent only asked us to let them know what we decide about the sale. No apologies for the errors or any other explanations.

I find it really difficult to trust this estate agent now.
Are we being too fussy or do you think we have very high expectations?

Thanks a mil.
 
I find it really difficult to trust this estate agent now.

You should completely ignore anything an estate agency tells you.

You have to check it out for yourself.

The example you give is odd. You should not have needed a surveyor to tell you that the windows were not double glazed. Though, I suppose if I saw that in a brochure, I probably would not have checked.
 
We viewed the property twice and noticed that the windows were not double glazed, but thought that that might have been a mistake on their brochure and they didn't bother to correct and re-print the brochure.
We have noticed other things we weren't sure about and that is why we paid for a house survey.

However, only when we got the house survey report, we went to check all the advertising materials including the online ones (the estate agent's website, daft.ie and myhome.ie). On all of them the property is described as being double glazed.

Also, the agent told us that no gun barrel piping was used and the surveyor stated the opposite.

We really want to buy this property for personal and professional reasons; it's the only property left in the area. Would it be fair to say to the estate agent that we go ahead with the same offer they have already accepted, but, since it was made based on their description, we will require to have double glazed windows and no gun barrel piping? If this is not accepted, then we will require a discount, but we still want to make a complaint as it is not morally correct what's happening. We wouldn't want other young couples like us to have the same experience.

I cannot stress how disappointing this is for us.

You should completely ignore anything an estate agency tells you.

You have to check it out for yourself.

The example you give is odd. You should not have needed a surveyor to tell you that the windows were not double glazed. Though, I suppose if I saw that in a brochure, I probably would not have checked.
 
Estate agents work for the sellers and are paid by them. As Brendan said, never believe estate agents, their brochures or websites.

I doubt you'll get a discount, caveat emptor and all that.

Complain to whatever professional organization the estate agent claims membership of.
 
Thanks for your advice. I think we've learnt our lesson.
In this case, I think it is better to go ahead with the sale and ask the agent to honour what they are selling according to their promotional materials. We based our offer on their description, so can they change what they are selling now without giving us a reason for that?

Also, if there is asbestos used in the property, aren't they supposed to warn the clients about that?

Estate agents work for the sellers and are paid by them. As Brendan said, never believe estate agents, their brochures or websites.

I doubt you'll get a discount, caveat emptor and all that.

Complain to whatever professional organization the estate agent claims membership of.
 
Would it be fair to say to the estate agent that we go ahead with the same offer they have already accepted, but, since it was made based on their description, we will require to have double glazed windows and no gun barrel piping?

When you made the offer, you knew that there was no double glazing. So it would be unfair to reduce the offer based on this.

If you have allowed €10k for doing up the house, and the surveyor has estimated that it will cost €20k because of something unknown to you, it's fair enough for you to point this out and reduce your offer.
Don't rely on the vendor to put in double glazing and remove the piping for you.
we still want to make a complaint as it is not morally correct what's happening. We wouldn't want other young couples like us to have the same experience.

You are right to make a complaint. But hold off until the deal is done or dead.

Brendan
 
You cannot rely on brochures full stop. That is why you get a surveyor. And you base your price on this.

No contracts are signed, if you feel you are now over paying due to the work that will need to be done, there is nothing stopping you reducing your bid price.

Were there other buyers?

By all means complain about the EA, but that's really a pointless exercise, he will just state that the small print at the brochure points out that it's 'caveat emptor' and he'll probably say he made an honest mistake about the windows. It must have been a mistake as that is as obviously as the day is long when they are not double glazed.

Re the gun barrell pipes, does the EA even know what that means, I cannot understand how he would know what type of pipes were in the plumbing. Two years I had to get rid of some of them myself, and they had been in since the late seventies. Not sure but this might be claimable on insurance.

Do you really think the EA knows if the property has asbestos? Do you really want to rely on his answer?

Forget about trusting the EA, nobody should ever trust the EA, you're making it too personal. You are emotional involved in buying your home, he is selling you a product, a box a nothing, in his eyes. All he wants is to get you over the line. It's business.
 
Thanks for your advice.

In this case, I think it is better to go ahead with the sale and ask the agent to honour what they are selling according to their promotional materials. We based our offer on their description, so can they change what they are selling now without giving us a reason for that?

Don't forget, you are buying from the vendor, not the estate agent.
The vendor has accepted your price. You have no legal right to insist that they drop the price because the brochure was incorrect.

Until the contract is signed, either you or the vendor can drop out at any stage, with no reason.

If you ask for a reduction in the price because of the survey, they are under no obligation to accept.
 
Hi everybody, thanks a lot for your advice.
Just wanted to let everybody know that we took the risk and made a lower offer to the vendor.
In short, we explained this to the estate agent: we accept that they didn't know about the asbestos problem and the gun barrel piping, so that will be our problem once we get the house. However, regarding the double glazed windows, we had to ask whether the owners are going to make sure they get double-glazed windows by the time we sign the contract or maybe they are willing to give us a discount. We suggested an offer which was 1,500 euro less than the initial one and they accepted it subject to a quick closing.
Do you think this is a good deal?

All the ads for this house have been deleted from daft.ie and myhome.ie.
The last time when I saw them was on Sunday.
They mentioned ”sale agreed” on those ads but now they are gone.

Do you think this is dodgy?

Thanks a mil.
 
Hi PaddyBloggit,

We know, but unfortunately 1,500 euro is better than nothing as, since we haven't signed a sale contract yet, the vendor can easily decide not to give us any discounts.

How much do you think it'll cost us to replace all the windows in a 3 bedroom house in Dublin? Am I right to assume it'll be somewhere between 3,000 and 4,000 euro?

Thanks a mil for your replies so far, everybody!

€1,500 won't replace windows for you.
 
Dear Bronte,

I've done some online research and I have discovered that the EA can be fined (up to 8,000 euro) or even lose their license if they use misleading / false advertising.
You're so right about the gun barrel piping, asbestos and us being too emotional while the agent isn't. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
However, we've got a 1,500 euro discount subject to a quick closing.
I'm not sure about this, but I think there are no other bidders. Do we have the right to ask the EA if there are any other bidders at the moment and can I trust him that he's going to tell us the truth?
The ad for this property has recently disappeared from the estate agent's website, myhome.ie and daft.ie.
The last time when I saw it online was two days ago when I contacted the EA about all these problems.
 
It's nonsense for you to think the vendor would change the windows.

Are you happy with the house, are you happy to put in windows of your choice, and fix the piping, later, do you like the house, it's in the location you want, the size is right, the garden and parking suit you etc.

Can you tell us the price, general location and size (3 bed semi d). Are you mortgage approved.

If you are happy, do you care if there are other bidders. Has your surveyer done a good job (I presume he pointed out the piping, though I'm a bit confused about the asbestos).

Forget about the EA misleading you, that's just a waste of time. EA = misleading. EA = don't trust. EA = works for vendor, not purchaser. EA = person with probably zilch knowldged of property. EA = person who does not want to know about problems in property = don't know, so can't be misleading.

(Apologies to the honest EA's reading this, they do exist ! )
 
This year I sat through 3 meetings with an Estate Agent who wanted our business. At each and every meeting he told us the same story about the named rugby personality that he was dealing with and who was looking at our neighbours house. The same story about the other Leinster guys who were all buying in the neighbourhood. The same story about the queues for viewings. He told us that he would have no problem achieving €xxx's for our house. Other family members decided to go with this flash Harry. In the end we had extremely poor viewings and the price achieved was way lower that the "no problem" amount. He still ended up getting a very large cheque for very little work.
 
Without knowing the house and the price you and the price you are paying it is hard for anyone to pass any comment.

If the house was priced to allow for all these issues that's fine. If it wasn't and priced in line with other good quality houses that would be a problem.

On the window issue I think you are over reacting. It may have said it on the brochure but anyone buying a house the first thing you look at is windows as in older houses its a given you will need to change them and that needs to be factored into your price and how much you need to spend on the house afterwards. Next comes the electrics and heating.

That's why you get a survey done and pay someone to tell you all the faults of the house and you should never rely on the agent because they really don't know. I was at a viewing where the agent said there was no flood damage and after picking up the carpet it was obvious the house had been flooded - I don't think the agent was lying as I'd met him a few times before I genuinely believe he just wasn't aware of it.

It's then up to you to price the house with all those faults in mind.

As someone said buying a house is very emotional.

On the face of it knocking 1500 off the price with the issues you describe isn't a whole lot. Especially if there is no other bidder.

Isn't asbestos a no no? If that was a problem I'd be running away. Again that's just a gut reaction from the little info you have provided. how would the agent even know of the asbestos unless the vendor told him?

Again with the little info my feeling is that you are jumping into this as you think it's the last house available in the area. I think you need to stand back and consider whether it is worth it. That being said it's probably a poster child for the state of our housing market at the moment.
 
Hi Bronte,

Thanks for your advice.
We're happy with the house, happy to put in windows as long as we get a lower price for the house, and we're happy about the size of the house and the lovely garden. We were told by the surveyor that the asbestos can be left there without problems and, if we wanted to remove it, it would cost us max €1,500; it's outside on the soffit boards at the front and back of the house.
We like the location as well.

It's a 3 bedroom house (one bathroom), mid-terraced, built around 1973, south Dublin. Price: 252,000 euro.

Thanks a mil for all the advice.

It's nonsense for you to think the vendor would change the windows.

Are you happy with the house, are you happy to put in windows of your choice, and fix the piping, later, do you like the house, it's in the location you want, the size is right, the garden and parking suit you etc.

Can you tell us the price, general location and size (3 bed semi d). Are you mortgage approved.

If you are happy, do you care if there are other bidders. Has your surveyer done a good job (I presume he pointed out the piping, though I'm a bit confused about the asbestos).

Forget about the EA misleading you, that's just a waste of time. EA = misleading. EA = don't trust. EA = works for vendor, not purchaser. EA = person with probably zilch knowldged of property. EA = person who does not want to know about problems in property = don't know, so can't be misleading.

(Apologies to the honest EA's reading this, they do exist ! )
 
Thanks for the feedback.
Apparently a few EAs have been fined so far in Ireland and in the UK for this specific misleading detail, i.e. the type of windows they advertise for the properties they sell. Anyway, I won't insist on this anymore as it is what it is. It really depends on us whether we get over this and pay what the EA wants or we offer a lower price.

The surveyor said that the electrics and heating are in reasonable condition.

We initially asked the agent to talk to the vendor and ask him about asbestos. They said that there wasn't any.
The asbestos is, according to the surveyor, not such a big issue as it is on the soffit boards at the front and the back of the house. It would have been a no no if it was inside the house.


Without knowing the house and the price you and the price you are paying it is hard for anyone to pass any comment.

If the house was priced to allow for all these issues that's fine. If it wasn't and priced in line with other good quality houses that would be a problem.

On the window issue I think you are over reacting. It may have said it on the brochure but anyone buying a house the first thing you look at is windows as in older houses its a given you will need to change them and that needs to be factored into your price and how much you need to spend on the house afterwards. Next comes the electrics and heating.

That's why you get a survey done and pay someone to tell you all the faults of the house and you should never rely on the agent because they really don't know. I was at a viewing where the agent said there was no flood damage and after picking up the carpet it was obvious the house had been flooded - I don't think the agent was lying as I'd met him a few times before I genuinely believe he just wasn't aware of it.

It's then up to you to price the house with all those faults in mind.

As someone said buying a house is very emotional.

On the face of it knocking 1500 off the price with the issues you describe isn't a whole lot. Especially if there is no other bidder.

Isn't asbestos a no no? If that was a problem I'd be running away. Again that's just a gut reaction from the little info you have provided. how would the agent even know of the asbestos unless the vendor told him?

Again with the little info my feeling is that you are jumping into this as you think it's the last house available in the area. I think you need to stand back and consider whether it is worth it. That being said it's probably a poster child for the state of our housing market at the moment.
 
I understand your frustration, Tintangel.
We don't trust the EA we work with anymore although he seemed very nice and helpful at first.

This year I sat through 3 meetings with an Estate Agent who wanted our business. At each and every meeting he told us the same story about the named rugby personality that he was dealing with and who was looking at our neighbours house. The same story about the other Leinster guys who were all buying in the neighbourhood. The same story about the queues for viewings. He told us that he would have no problem achieving €xxx's for our house. Other family members decided to go with this flash Harry. In the end we had extremely poor viewings and the price achieved was way lower that the "no problem" amount. He still ended up getting a very large cheque for very little work.
 
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