Reason you wont be protesting on the 10th December

I've never been on a protest in my life but here is one protest I most certainly wont be partaking in.

Reasons -

1. What mass protests did we see when us workers were hit with the USC?
2. " " " " " when some of us had the threat of repossession looming over us due to simply losing our jobs?
3. " " " " " LPT?
4. " " " " " Investment Property Tax?

Weren't the above more of an unjust tax then a few Euro water charge???

This tax has hit the layabouts exactly were it hurts. They were cushioned far too long. Had none of the above worries on their shoulders. Their landlords had it all covered for them. Their rent was paid for them and all they had to worry about was getting a new pair of runners and adding a few bob to their rent each month.

This protest is simply pathetic.

The charge of 'a few Euro' as you put it, is just an introductory offer to get you singed up. after that its onwards and upwards! except the people are not falling for it..
I will be marching on the 10th, and no im not on the dole but im happy to take a day off work for event, as will many others.

PatrickJ said:

I've never been on a protest in my life but here is one protest I most certainly wont be partaking in.

Reasons -

1. What mass protests did we see when us workers were hit with the USC?
2. " " " " " when some of us had the threat of repossession looming over us due to simply loosing our jobs?
3. " " " " " LPT?
4. " " " " " Investment Property Tax?

Weren't the above more of an unjust tax then a few Euro water charge???

This tax has hit the layabouts exactly were it hurts. They were cushioned far too long. Had none of the above worries on their shoulders. Their landlords had it all covered for them. Their rent was paid for them and all they had to worry about was getting a new pair of runners and adding a few bob to their rent each month.

This protest is simply pathetic.

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What a condescending post.

1. What mass protests did we see when us workers were hit with the USC?
2. " " " " " when some of us had the threat of repossession looming over us due to simply loosing our jobs?
3. " " " " " LPT?
4. " " " " " Investment Property Tax?

Click to expand...

Maybe it's the fact that it's the "last straw" for many people in Ireland, taking into account all that you mentioned.
LPT protests were initially done, via "non-payment", but then it was given to revenue to collect. Threats of the monies been taken at source, non payment fines forced a lot of people into paying.

At this stage, I would guess that it's more than just "water charges" , as the reason that some people are protesting. They've had the fill, they see a chance to vent, do something that they feel is positive, fight back, whatever you want to call it... but "pathetic" is not something I would call it.

The inconvenient fact remains that those leading the water charges protests are in favour of higher taxes on citizens.

the_banker said:

what a condescending post.

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+ 1

PatrickJ said:

I've never been on a protest in my life but here is one protest I most certainly wont be partaking in.

Reasons -

1. What mass protests did we see when us workers were hit with the USC?
2. " " " " " when some of us had the threat of repossession looming over us due to simply losing our jobs?
3. " " " " " LPT?
4. " " " " " Investment Property Tax?

Weren't the above more of an unjust tax then a few Euro water charge???

This tax has hit the layabouts exactly were it hurts. They were cushioned far too long. Had none of the above worries on their shoulders. Their landlords had it all covered for them. Their rent was paid for them and all they had to worry about was getting a new pair of runners and adding a few bob to their rent each month.

This protest is simply pathetic.

Click to expand...

Appalling smug post and unchristian at best. Posters have been suspended from this forum for much less. I get the feeling that the poster is one of those guys who would be shouting "Jump" to somebody contemplating self harm on the verge of a high crane.

T McGibney said:

The inconvenient fact remains that those leading the water charges protests are in favour of higher taxes on citizens.

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+1 !!

It's amazing how those (and a few notables on this site) who advocate higher taxes for better services are suddenly quiet....it's something else when those taxes are actually brought in! As we know too well in this country....higher taxes do not bring about better services in any meaningful way.....there were plenty people lying on HSE trolleys during the Celtic Tiger!!!

PatrickJ said:

I've never been on a protest in my life but here is one protest I most certainly wont be partaking in.

This protest is simply pathetic.

Click to expand...

Is that you Enda??

PatrickJ said:

I've never been on a protest in my life but here is one protest I most certainly wont be partaking in.

Reasons -

1. What mass protests did we see when us workers were hit with the USC?
2. " " " " " when some of us had the threat of repossession looming over us due to simply losing our jobs?
3. " " " " " LPT?
4. " " " " " Investment Property Tax?

Weren't the above more of an unjust tax then a few Euro water charge???

This tax has hit the layabouts exactly were it hurts. They were cushioned far too long. Had none of the above worries on their shoulders. Their landlords had it all covered for them. Their rent was paid for them and all they had to worry about was getting a new pair of runners and adding a few bob to their rent each month.

This protest is simply pathetic.

Click to expand...

You posted some time ago that you were unemployed for 3 years & owed a Bank a substantial sum which you could not pay .

Could we have surmised from that you were a debt avoiding well shod layabout ?

Nobody who actually appreciates that most of us are simply one payday away from troubled times would surmise that - you however seem to be of a different stamp !

I don't march under a Union banner, so I'll have nothing to do with these protests.

I personally cant understand all the publicity they're getting. The crowds are quiet small as a % of the population.
Perhaps it's the criminal/aggressive angle to some of the protests that keeps it all in the media

The main reason I won't be protesting is that I have signed up to pay my water charges. I believe that we should all be funding expenses such as this.

The second reason is that I could not possibly see myself marching with a certain crew of lunatics or shinners - (I'm not talking about the many reasonable people who might also be there).

The third reason is that I am working on that day and I don't get any personal days.

The fourth reason is that I already had a day walking with a placard recently in support of my colleagues (pay deducted). (But this is a weak excuse, really!)

Summary: Can't/Won't do it at all!



Marion

I think the charge is reasonable, justified and that we have been coasting along with a laissez-faire attitude to water management for far too long. There are and there will be challenges but I think it is about time we started. The protests appear to be coming from two distinct sources, people who are already struggling and are afraid of what this means for them personally and don't feel able to afford it and the nasty, loud, populist, vote-seeking group who are seeking to control and organise the protest to harness a genuine discontent and worry for their own gain. I have no sympathy for them and I do not identify with their ludicrous, self-righteous, hypocritical and ill-informed campaign. I think they are actuated by greed in fact and not by any sense of civic duty so I won't be protesting - I have nothing but contempt for them.

Socrates

I don’t fully understand your post.

“The protests appear to be coming from two distinct sources,”

Agreed!

Group 1
“People who are already struggling and are afraid of what this means for them personally and don't feel able to afford it”

Reaction
?????????

Group 2
“The nasty, loud, populist, vote-seeking group who are seeking to control and organise the protest to harness a genuine discontent and worry for their own gain.

Reaction
“I have no sympathy for them and I do not identify with their ludicrous, self-righteous, hypocritical and ill-informed campaign. I think they are actuated by greed in fact and not by any sense of civic duty so I won't be protesting - I have nothing but contempt for them.”

What is your reaction to Group 1?

Sophrosyne, good point. I didn't address them and I should have. Insofar as I can tell, the protests have been hijacked by the "group 2" element - the Paul Murphys of this world are driving the protest now, as it is a group 2-led protest I have no interest in giving it any support whatsoever.

As for my group 1, every valid concern raised has resulted in a response from the government in terms of providing reliefs and supports. The valid concerns have been whittled away by these responses and the number of people realistically anticipating hardship now is less than the number of people who anticipated hardship when the charging structure was first announced. They are a diminishing proportion of the protest group which now appears to simply be a vehicle for grandstanding, self-serving fools. Fundamentally while I sympathise with people struggling, I don't subscribe to the notion that it is a valid reason to reverse the process of introducing water charges. I am firmly in favour of supports and reliefs where there is genuine hardship. I think their protest is ill-directed and ill-advised and it has only degenerated as time has gone on. The basis of the protest has shifted from small-scale and genuine "I can't afford" (i.e. group 1) to the daft and unsustainable rabble-rousing we are now being subjected to. The fact that Irish Water employees and contractors are being targeted, abused and attacked by self-declared "peaceful protesters" only adds to my disgust with the whole thing.

Fundamentally the protests are wrong-headed. We are currently wildly out of step with just about every other jurisdiction on this matter, it is time we fixed the problem and removed the anomaly that sees private, urban water users benefit unfairly from the current situation.

P.S. I am a "private urban water user" and I have no affiliation to Irish Water. I will be paying water charges for both clean and waste water and I will not be entitled to any reliefs or supports.

I'm honestly shocked by some of the responses. I'm as agitated as the next person out there but what I was simply trying to say is - I think there where more unjust taxes plonked on us all in the past and yet they didn't get the same reaction as the Water Tax.

Where were the hoards when I and umpteen others were been threatened with repossession?

Where were the protesters when I lost and others lost their jobs?

Our only crime was unemployment. A lot of people on this forum were very much of the view that if you couldn't pay than hand your home back to the bank so I am shocked by some of the responses in favor of the march.

I have to but I will respond later.

PatrickJ said:

I'm honestly shocked by some of the responses. I'm as agitated as the next person out there but what I was simply trying to say is - I think there where more unjust taxes plonked on us all in the past and yet they didn't get the same reaction as the Water Tax.

Where were the hoards when I and umpteen others were been threatened with repossession?

Where were the protesters when I lost and others lost their jobs?

Our only crime was unemployment. A lot of people on this forum were very much of the view that if you couldn't pay than hand your home back to the bank so I am shocked by some of the responses in favor of the march.

I have to but I will respond later.

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ever hear of the 'last straw' ?

PatrickJ said:

....A lot of people on this forum were very much of the view that if you couldn't pay than hand your home back to the bank so I am shocked by some of the responses in favor of the march.

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Ahhhmm, thats how the system works (or is supposed to)! You get a mortgage, buy a house...if you can't afford it at some stage, then you lose the house!

It's not a heads you win, tails I lose type of deal, though that is how it has turned out for tens of thousands in this country who are now many years into free accommodation at the expense of the rest!

PatrickJ said:

I'm honestly shocked by some of the responses.
Where were the hoards when I and umpteen others were been threatened with repossession?

Where were the protesters when I lost and others lost their jobs?


I have to but I will respond later.

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Patrick,with regards to the water protests and your posts,one less bill for you to have to pay is that bit more money in your pocket for you to pay your mortgage and therefore stay in your house.