Crisis in Ukraine

One of the many risks facing us all is the possibility of war.

The current crisis in Ukraine has the potential to spin out of control.

Having lived and worked in Kharkov in the East of Ukraine for a short period, my opinion is that the root cause of the problem is that in 20 odd years of independence the citizens of Ukraine failed to elect a competent or honest government.

Ukraine is potentially wealthy. it has vast areas of fertile agricultural land that is hardly farmed. During communist times it people had a higher standard of living than Poland, today the are much worse off.

See this link for a good overview of the current crisis.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

Have we managed to elect a capable or honest Government since we got our independence?

Sunny said:

Have we managed to elect a capable or honest Government since we got our independence?

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I was thinking the same thing!

cremeegg said:

Ukraine is potentially wealthy. it has vast areas of fertile agricultural land that is hardly farmed. During communist times

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I don't know anything about Ukraine, but during a communist regime, nobody will invest in anything like agriculture where, at the whim of the government, any private property can be seized. Shame.

Firefly said:

I don't know anything about Ukraine, but during a communist regime, nobody will invest in anything like agriculture where, at the whim of the government, any private property can be seized. Shame.

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During the communist era it was known as the breadbasket of the Soviet Union.

Sunny said:

Have we managed to elect a capable or honest Government since we got our independence?

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We may have elected Charlie Haughey and Ray Burke but we never put John Gilligan or Wayne Dundon in Government.

cremeegg said:

We may have elected Charlie Haughey and Ray Burke but we never put John Gilligan or Wayne Dundon in Government.

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We elected Martin ferris and Gerry Adams. Indeed Gerry could lead Sinn Fein into the next Government.

Sunny said:

We elected Martin ferris and Gerry Adams. Indeed Gerry could lead Sinn Fein into the next Government.

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I am thinking about that

cremeegg said:

We may have elected Charlie Haughey and Ray Burke but we never put John Gilligan or Wayne Dundon in Government.

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I can't be sure but i don't think either of those <ahem> gentlemen actually put themselves up for election... Dundon doesn't seem to have the charm necessary for canvassing but I suspect Gilligan might have - who is to say he wouldn't have succeeded?

I guess it could be viewed as being very Christian... One could argue we are very forgiving of (some) criminals...

I think it is pretty harsh to blame Ukraine for the problems it is facing now...
If it was simply Ukraines fault then the other former Soviet Republics wouldnt be as nervous as they presently are.

The_Banker said:

I think it is pretty harsh to blame Ukraine for the problems it is facing now...
If it was simply Ukraines fault then the other former Soviet Republics wouldnt be as nervous as they presently are.

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The options are Russian Police State rule or the neo-fascists they have now.
Why is it so often the case that the options are the bad guys or the bad guys? (Syria, Ukraine, Russia, Rwanda, Iran, Afghanistan... the list is endless).

The_Banker said:

I think it is pretty harsh to blame Ukraine for the problems it is facing now...
If it was simply Ukraines fault then the other former Soviet Republics wouldnt be as nervous as they presently are.

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The Baltic states may be nervous but because over the last 20 years they have succeeded in building functioning democracies and functioning economies they are in a much less vulnerable position than Ukraine.

They have also made international alliances in the EU, which in turn was possible because they had built a democracy and an economy.

They are also members of NATO. A significant foreign policy achievement for them.

Belarus has also failed to build a successful state, (although not the basket case Ukraine was before the current crisis). It too could be sucked in by Russia.

Purple said:

The options are Russian Police State rule or the neo-fascists they have now.
Why is it so often the case that the options are the bad guys or the bad guys? (Syria, Ukraine, Russia, Rwanda, Iran, Afghanistan... the list is endless).

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Because no one was developing a positive vision for the future, no one was giving leadership in support of any positive inclusive vision of Ukraine's future, and the Ukranian people were not able to identify and support any positive vision for their future.

We may laugh today at Dev's athletic youths and comely maidens, but it was a positive vision that people were willing to support.