Care Homes

After watching the disgusting and sickening footage of how the truly vulnerable were treated in a care home I am now waiting for the same old excuses to be trotted out;

HIQA; it’s a lack of resources. We need more money. Our staff are dedicated and hard working professionals.

The Unions; Our members need more training. They should not just be sacked for gross misconduct. They should be suspended on full pay while there is an investigation which will blame the government and lack of resources. Just re-train the “hard working and professional” staff and everything will be fine.

The HSA: It’s HIQA’s fault. It’s the ministers fault (because the minister should know what’s going on in every care home in Ireland).

The reality; People who never worked in a care home in their lives and never received any training in the area know that what went on is utterly unacceptable. The people involved should just be sacked. There should then be a police investigation and, if possible, people should go to prison.
HIQA have grossly inadequate auditing, investigative and reporting structures, systems and procedures in place. They need to change how they do business.
The Minister for Health knows now and needs to make sure that people who engage in these activities will face criminal charges.

As with most problems in this country the problem is not a lack of money but a lack of competence and a lack of accountability.

I missed the program. Is it availiable anywhere?

I presume that it will be on the RTE player within a couple of days.

Could't agree more Purple.

This has nothing to do with funding - What we saw last night was has nothing to do with funding, pay, training or anything else. It was pure evil and a cultural issue.

I would love to know what's going on with the unions behind the scene on this one - these people deserve no protection.

The biggest issue is that people that were not in the program (overall manager other care staff etc)and not on film knew what was going on but will probably get off and be moved, promoted whatever because there is no evidence that they were complicit in any of this.

Ultimately I think the staff in the picture will be fired but it is the others that is the problem. I actually have some sympathy with the minister in that I think they do wish to fire these people straight away but their hands are tied and must follow a process to the letter or these people will get away with it.

The whole thing is a farce. The unions should come out against these evil people and actually stand up for the rest of the workers!

In related news...(Savita Halappanavar)

"Some of the 30 medical professionals who had a direct involvement with Ms Halappanavar have opted for a change of career. Others have gone either on sick or protective leave or taken a career break."


How nice of them to put patient care at the top of their agenda

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...ick-leave-in-wake-of-savita-death-301056.html

I would presume that if the staff there are in a union that it would be Impact? Doesn't seem to be any statement there about the issue but instead a video on a labour court recommendation on sleepover rates in care homes!

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Hey guys, we're getting caught up in unions again and nearly forgetting about the main subject here. The job of unions is to protect its members. No union has condoned what has happened. We do not know if the people involved are even members of a union.

Nine people (including two nurses) have been suspended on full pay (whether overtime, Sunday Duty, Night Duty, Shift Allowance etc is included in this, we do not know) pending an investigation. There is a process in the HSE which must be followed before any sacking can take place.

Leper said:

Hey guys, we're getting caught up in unions again and nearly forgetting about the main subject here. The job of unions is to protect its members. No union has condoned what has happened. We do not know if the people involved are even members of a union.

Nine people (including two nurses) have been suspended on full pay (whether overtime, Sunday Duty, Night Duty, Shift Allowance etc is included in this, we do not know) pending an investigation. There is a process in the HSE which must be followed before any sacking can take place.

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The issue is that the union will protest their members to the detriment of the residents of the care home. All employees should know that they can and will lose their job for gross misconduct and they should know that it will happen quickly.
No union should ever back an employee who was sacked on these grounds and was guilty of the charges but proper procedures were not followed. Unfortunately the Unions are not interested in justice, just looking after their members. They are a vested interest group and will, once again, hurt the vulnerable in order to protect their predominately middle-class members.
This scenario is a major factor in this incident and in the wider low level of standards and value we as a nation receive from our state sector or sectors regulated by the state.

Purple said:

The issue is that the union will protest their members to the detriment of the residents of the care home. All employees should know that they can and will lose their job for gross misconduct and they should know that it will happen quickly.
No union should ever back an employee who was sacked on these grounds and was guilty of the charges but proper procedures were not followed. Unfortunately the Unions are not interested in justice, just looking after their members. They are a vested interest group and will, once again, hurt the vulnerable in order to protect their predominately middle-class members.
This scenario is a major factor in this incident and in the wider low level of standards and value we as a nation receive from our state sector or sectors regulated by the state.

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Purple, Normally I enjoy your posts (even if I do not agree with you on whatever subject) but your stance on trades unions here is bordering on the ludicrous.

Unions are there to protect their members if they are to be protected. One other poster informed us that these people are members of the IMPACT union. IMPACT although representing very few medical staff largely represent clerical staff. So it is not unfair of me to suggest that we stop union bashing and concentrate on the real business afoot here. For the record at least one of the main nursing unions has distanced itself from staff behaviour in this case.

I thought the programme was horrific and the behaviour of the care staff and nurses beyond belief. How it came to be like that there you would have to wonder - where most of the staff in that unit had the same horrible attitude. It seemed to be a big enough group of staff, you would think that one or two of them would have stood up to it. I don't blame the minister for this. I blame the people who did it all of whom had qualifications. The minister can't be everywhere but the manager of the unit should be fired along with those staff in the video in order to send a clear message to others that this behaviour won't be tolerated. Their work is stressful - I wouldn't be able to do it - but there are guidelines in place and training available as to how to deal with it. Shame on those people.

1 word that sums it up for me.

Disturbing.

sisterjoan said:

I thought the programme was horrific and the behaviour of the care staff and nurses beyond belief. How it came to be like that there you would have to wonder - where most of the staff in that unit had the same horrible attitude. It seemed to be a big enough group of staff, you would think that one or two of them would have stood up to it. I don't blame the minister for this. I blame the people who did it all of whom had qualifications. The minister can't be everywhere but the manager of the unit should be fired along with those staff in the video in order to send a clear message to others that this behaviour won't be tolerated. Their work is stressful - I wouldn't be able to do it - but there are guidelines in place and training available as to how to deal with it. Shame on those people.

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And so they use their patients as verbal and physical punchbags.

Id love to see someone mentally abuse those care staff and see how many hours or days or weeks they could put up with it.

I think those care staff should be publicly named and shamed and that might teach them a lesson and some manners too.

With regards to more money and training.

"Manners cost nothing"

The last thing the relatives of patients in care want is cynicism. Who is to blame? I do not see the usual excuses being rolled out unless, of course, if the public and our politicians allow.

HIQA:- There is only so much this outfit can do. Within minutes of arrival at any care facility the entire staff can know of their presence and where necessary can immediately change attitudes etc.

HSA:- Again its input is limited except for recommendations and a little more.

Unions:- Largely irrelevant in this case.

The Minister:- Controls the purse strings; can move investigation along; ultimately can sack the staff.

Lack of Money:- Not an issue here.

HSE:- Open book here. Probably (knowingly) would not allow what happened. I felt sorry for the CEO being interviewed when asked to consider his position. No matter who was CEO this awful scenario would have occurred.

The Local Management and Staff:- Here is the problem. One employee enjoyed a cigarette in the communal area. Others seemed to be enjoying coffee and using their mobile phones. Some bad language used. Patient dragged on floor; another patient not allowed to go to toilet despite several requests; patients being threatened with removal to the porch area or not allowed to use their seats. I understand some sufferers of the illnesses involved can have "an attachment" to items such as seats. Force feeding, looked dreadful and patient was effectively pinned to seat. Manager (male) of unit appeared to jump on seat making contact with patient who was afraid of men and keys. Some staff members "flapped" fairly heavy files towards the face of patients. Some unneccessary Physical contact was made with patients also e.g. kicking, shoving etc. Some staff appeared to be ignoring some of the dreadful practices occurring. I was not fully aware which staff were nurses (outside of the manager) and which were Care workers. I understand Care staff work under instruction from the nursing staff - the opposite appeared to be the situation here.

Overhead on Tape:- "Remember so-and-so who used to work here and she asked too many questions?" - "We got rid of her."

I read that nine people were suspended pending an investigation. These were qualified medical people (Nursing and FETAC Level 5). For some reason I feel there will be more suspensions also. 200 hours of tape footage is being looked at by our Police force. There may be legal charges here too.

Some Staff appeared to be helpful and caring toward the patients. One danced with a patient and threw her arms around her also.

Outside of television it appeared that there were no activities available e.g. playing cards, board games, interaction etc.

The undercover person who entered the facility to investigate and place cameras etc has not spoken yet. I feel there is more to come which might shock us.

Whistleblowers:- There were whistleblowers involved. Perhaps the Health Services will listen to these for a change?

I recommend, if you did not see the programme, then look at it, if you can stomach disturbing scenes and remember these people are well paid to look after patients. The patients seemed to be an interruption to the lives of the staff.

Purple said:

The people involved should just be sacked.

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Compensation culture unfortunately dictates that this can't happen

I went to an employment rights course about 2 weeks ago. Lecturer gave an example where a bar owner had video evidence of a bar staff member taking money out of the till and putting it in their pocket. Owner pulled staff member up on it and staff admitted to it so owner sacked him.

The staff member sued the owner because he didn't follow proper procedures re staff disciplinary matters.

He won his case and got an award for unfair dismissal

That's what you're up against

Leper said:

... These were qualified medical people (Nursing and FETAC Level 5). ...

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These are not medical people, they are nurses and care assistants.

Speaking of ministers.Has Minister for Health Mr Varadkar said anything on this matter yet?

Leper said:

Purple, Normally I enjoy your posts (even if I do not agree with you on whatever subject) but your stance on trades unions here is bordering on the ludicrous.

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Your comment got me thinking about why I dislike Unions so much. It’s not just the disingenuous populism of their leaders. It’s not just their betrayal of what they were set up to do. It’s not the fact that they seek to further the economic success of the already economically advantaged to the detriment of society in general and the poor and vulnerable in particular. No, it’s the fact that they, more than any other group, epitomise the culture of mediocrity that is so pervasive in so many parts of our state from our public services, to the Gardai, our health services, our semi-states, our education system and our local and national government.
They are the distilled personification of the lack of personal responsibility and accountability which is the root of incompetence and mediocrity.
The abuse within this Care Home is just another manifestation of that culture. Babies dying in hospitals, ambulances waiting for hours in A&E’s, children with special needs not getting the help they need, people dying outside the Dail. These are other examples.

dereko1969 said:

I would presume that if the staff there are in a union that it would be Impact? Doesn't seem to be any statement there about the issue but instead a video on a labour court recommendation on sleepover rates in care homes!

[broken link removed]

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Impact represent mainly clerical/admin staff in the HSE. More than likely SIPTU and INMO.

Purple said:

Your comment got me thinking about why I dislike Unions so much. It’s not just the disingenuous populism of their leaders. It’s not just their betrayal of what they were set up to do. It’s not the fact that they seek to further the economic success of the already economically advantaged to the detriment of society in general and the poor and vulnerable in particular. No, it’s the fact that they, more than any other group, epitomise the culture of mediocrity that is so pervasive in so many parts of our state from our public services, to the Gardai, our health services, our semi-states, our education system and our local and national government.
They are the distilled personification of the lack of personal responsibility and accountability which is the root of incompetence and mediocrity.
The abuse within this Care Home is just another manifestation of that culture. Babies dying in hospitals, ambulances waiting for hours in A&E’s, children with special needs not getting the help they need, people dying outside the Dail. These are other examples.

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Hi Purple, For about ten seconds I thought I offended you in my last two posts. But my leprosy is taking its toll on me throughout this cold, wet and windy night. I have no doubt you detest unions. I know membes of trades unions who detest unions too. There are times when even I detest unions (honestly!).

But, this is not the thread to barge on about the faults of unions. Please set up a separate thread and call it "Why I don't like Trade Unions" or something. Fighting the anti union cause on this thread is just driving interest in a most appalling subject away. I know, Purple, if a member of a trades union won at bingo you would be objecting. You are entitled to object, but please use another thread.