Authorising declined/subsequently taken visa

Paddy2014

Registered User
Messages
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I intended to buy a. Item online yesterday 1500 euro.
I entered all details on website. Full credit card details.
When I clicked /buy/ the website took a min or two to attempt to
Put the purchase through. When it finished trying the card details were rejected. . I fully intended to purchase. Entered
Credit card details correctly., as luck would have it the card was not
Accepted. Therefore payment offered and declined. - My question . I did not re enter details or anything after it was not accepted as payment. I left it at that presuming I did not make the purchase. .
I would have thought the merchant should at least have requested re authorisation from the prospective purchaser? People do change their mind in the real as well as virtual world. After my payment was rejected I did not consent to a further authorisation as the c.card online record of the interaction will show. Advice please. Will be disputing transaction from this point of view in morning
 
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Your post is very confusing and repetitive. You might edit it for clarity.

I did not give my consent to debit this card

Eh, you said earlier...

I intended to buy a. Item online yesterday 1500 euro.
I entered all details on website. Full credit card details.
When I clicked /buy/
and
I fully intended to purchase

When you clicked buy, you clearly showed your intention to buy the item.

The only grounds you would have for complaint is if you paid for the item twice on the grounds that the first one was rejected.

Brendan
 
Was the first card payment actually rejected though, or did you get an error page?
It looks to me that your first card payment was accepted by the merchant, but something went wrong on the IT side after that, and confirmation was not passed back to you.
You second card payment was rejected either because you had exceeded your limit, or you had tripped the check most IT systems have for card payments that a payment for the exact same amount will not be authorised within 5 minutes.

Regardless as to whether the payment was successful or rejected, the email you got from the website should have advised you on your cancellation\change of mind options.
Once you avail of this before the item is shipped, any card transaction will be refunded.
I think it would be wiser for you to cancel via that route than disputing a credit card transaction that you clearly intended to make.
 
Yap I think you have it in your first few lines. I pressed the buy button after completing the visa details. While I was waiting for the transaction to go through , I expected to see transaction completed and payment taken. However what came up was : credit card details incorrect - not accepted. I heard nothing for website until hour or two later , which was a blank " email confirmation " titled document . Which wouldn't open. There was no second card payment, I was happy that I got this unexpected rejection of card initially.Presumed no payment taken - no holiday booked.
My point is I accept that I bought the holiday for 1500 prior to the end of the transaction. As a stroke of luck it didn't accept my payment when I enteredit on website. If this happened and it did a few times on other sites I would simply start all over again and it would go through on 2nd attempt.i didn't do that in this case.
I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if a website rejects your Visa card then you haven't paid for the item therefore it's not purchased . Thank god I didn't book a similar holiday under that assumption. I think the website were incorrect in debiting my card after their website informed me At the time of booking that it was not accepted due to incorrect detail on credit card. I was on to them Earlier. They say they have log of holiday booking times etc ...but no record of the error I am saying occurred. My issue now really is , there must be an electronic record somewhere confirming the message that I got stating quite clearly from their website that card was rejected due to incorrect details. Where is that!? They use 3rd party to do credit card purchases , would it be there. I will chase up credit card issuer in the morning. If anyone had any tips here please reply Thks a mill.
 
Your post is very confusing and repetitive. You might edit it for clarity.



Eh, you said earlier...


and


When you clicked buy, you clearly showed your intention to buy the item.

The only grounds you would have for complaint is if you paid for the item twice on the grounds that the first one was rejected.

Brendan

I have no issue as regards my intention to buy. I did intend to buy. I did click the -buy-button. My issue is that the website declined my payment.
Surely common sense would tell you that if a website rejects your credit card then you have Not purchased the item you seeked to purchase.

I cannot imagine they have your implied authority to debit your account at a later stage without your explicit consent?
 
What failed in your transaction was the confirmation back to you after the card was charged... If I entered my credit card details on a site and, unless I immediately received an error message, I would not assume the success or failure of the transaction, especially if there has been a long delay in the response.
IT systems are easily confused by time delays, and if a user reclicks the same button or presses F5 refresh.
Please keep that in mind during any future online purchases - especially where the order website passes you onto a 3rd party website to enter your card details.

By entering your credit card details you have given consent to the payment being taken from your account, and to purchasing the product\service in question. That is the final stage with most online puchasing sites (and I expect all where a 3rd party card site is involved), there is no further confirm button presented to you after entering the details.
Remember, likely your card has not actually been charged yet. But an authorisation from the card has been captured, which will ultimately be processed by the card merchant and your card issuing bank in the next few days. I would consider that authorisation as representing "implied authority to debit your account at a later stage", and I expect, so will your card company.

The 3rd party credit card company that processed the payment will have
a record of any card validation attempts. But even if they are willing to confirm an unsuccessful attempt on that card, they have a record of at least 2 validation requests for the card for the amount to purchase the service in question.

I think you need really check the small print of the holiday site terms and conditions, to see if you have any wiggle room around immediate change of mind \ cancellation without penalty.
Otherwise, you are going to be relying on how amenable the holiday company is to voluntarily refunding your transaction.
 
Thks a lot for your very interesting reply. Couple of things !
2 validating requests I don't follow that. I put in c card details when requested and they were rejected for incorrect info. That error message was also wrong as some time later they did debit card , they couldn't have done that with incorrect info.
I was unaware that it was 3. Rd party site that processed card till I was told by company today.
What I cannot accept is that I wanted to purchase a holiday. I completed details. At the conclusion I was asked for payment. I gave details and it was rejected. End of story.

I entered correct details I got a incorrect message at the end telling me wrong credit card details entered - card rejected. That message was incorrect also as they sometime later did take the funds , as I say above , which they couldn't have if they had incorrect details as stated in original error message.

I cannot accept that after declining the card they come along some time later and take the funds. It's amatuerish and poor service. It is a very reasonable assertion to make that if your credit card is declined you have not made a purchase. It's common sense.

I am checking case law at the moment to see if this issue has arisen before. I appreciate the sensible replied here and Thks a lot. Ps.
 
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2 validating requests I don't follow that. I put in c card details when requested and they were rejected for incorrect info. That error message was also wrong as some time later they did debit card , they couldn't have done that with incorrect info.

Ah, I must have misunderstood what you said about 2nd attempt - I thought you have retried the transaction after getting the original error but it was also declined, but I reread and I see that you in this instance you did not. No worries.

My theory as to what happened was that somehow 2 card validation requests were sent, either from your browser, or from the order site to the card validation company. This was caused either by a delay\timeout, or perhaps your browser refreshing. The first request was accepted by the card company, and a confirmation send to the order site. The second 'background' request is then received by the card company, which is rejected - because of your 1st transaction, or garbled due to the delay - and you receive an error on your browser.
 
Your info is fab . It's interesting. I will end up going on this hol no doubt. I told the guy that today in the company. On a totally technical point , I am reading T@C all day ! If the 3rd party are obliged to seek consent eg re authorisation from a customer who they have rejected on line and they didn't do that... I reckon I might be able to change location of holiday if I put that scenario to the hol company. In fairness it's not their fault. It just a - get out of jail card- arrived in my lap unexpected , I am just going with it hoping to prevail on the company in the circumstances they might facilitate me without the huge penalties if I decided to change location myself! The law is the law whilst occasionally an ass is usually black and White , if a regulation was contravened here , I may just be able to take advantage of it .. That's all. Other sign of the coin if one couldn't go on hol near take off time you will take a heavy financial loss too. Swings @ roundabouts ! Thks again
 
that has happened me before with online purchases, it times out, could you not contact the company to see if your payment had gone thru?
 
Your info is fab . It's interesting. I will end up going on this hol no doubt. I told the guy that today in the company. On a totally technical point , I am reading T@C all day ! If the 3rd party are obliged to seek consent eg re authorisation from a customer who they have rejected on line and they didn't do that... I reckon I might be able to change location of holiday if I put that scenario to the hol company. In fairness it's not their fault. It just a - get out of jail card- arrived in my lap unexpected , I am just going with it hoping to prevail on the company in the circumstances they might facilitate me without the huge penalties if I decided to change location myself! The law is the law whilst occasionally an ass is usually black and White , if a regulation was contravened here , I may just be able to take advantage of it .. That's all. Other sign of the coin if one couldn't go on hol near take off time you will take a heavy financial loss too. Swings @ roundabouts ! Thks again

I'm really struggling to figure out what you're actually looking to happen.

You wanted to buy holiday - thought you'd failed but you've actually bought the holiday you wanted.

Are you now trying to get the holiday for free?
Are you trying to not pay for the holiday and not go?
Are you trying to go on a different holiday?
 
Thks Mahoney I was on to credit card company this morn as odessey06 correctly said the purchase was "captured" so it will come thru next day or two. My issue is: website rejected card. I therefore didn't pay for product. That suited me. I didn't re input details refresh page press f5 etc etc ....I don't believe they have authority to take the 1500e without either my express consent or a re authorisation request. My problem is trying to get a copy of the electronic "message" that I got. This occurs when one pc talks to another.. Where it is .."is my present problem to prove that my c card was rejected.! Thks
 
I'm really struggling to figure out what you're actually looking to happen.

You wanted to buy holiday - thought you'd failed but you've actually bought the holiday you wanted.

Are you now trying to get the holiday for free? No
Are you trying to not pay for the holiday and not go?no
Are you trying to go on a different holiday?
yes perhaps
Picked holiday- attempted to pay with c card - card declined - message from website - credit card details incorrect - rejected -. Website deny this message came up- say no problem with transaction- my card was rejected - proving this is my problem.
How the problem arises basically is as I was waiting for c card to be accepted I was informed that where I was going would be in rainy season - I wanted sun.
It was an unexpected stroke of luck that the card was unaccepted I couldn't believe it. I want to go on hols on the dates I booked but would prefer sun - that's it. Hol com , Say there was no problem with transaction - this is infuriating me / myself and herself saw the message - card details incorrect - it must be recorded somewhere at visa r hol website ( I will find it!)bottom line now is company will not budge , I am going to dispute the charge initially with visa. I have no choice , hol company tell me huge fees involved - cannot help.
Failing that. It's try small claims court. At this stage it's all or nothing - I am trying to get charge back - no authorisation requested from me is my line - failure there it's small claims. I have requested company to ask tech department to see if this error message can be found ( funny feeling they won't find it) court request might budge it - if there's a problem,I'm sure computers record everything as they" talk " to each other.
In the real world , if a shop rejected my payment and I left the shop and they decided after ah sure we will take yer mans money anyway and give him that item he was looking at - down to the police station I would be heading - virtual world and real world not all that different -
 
i'm confused now as well, what i meant that when it times out - you are not sure whether it booked or not, you never said whether you contacted the company at the time or not to check, which I would do and have done - it could have been your internet connection that caused it to time out - when you make a purchase, which you obviously did, you get a receipt, and with a holiday particularly, you get flight details, itineraries etc, you said that you got emails from the company later, so surely you knew you booked which you wanted to do in the first place? if you found out too late that it will be raining then that's nothing to do with anything.
 
ok I tried to book the holiday- I put in the credit card details - nothing timed out don't know where that came from- a message returned to me after I completed the credit card payments details - message was - incorrect credit card details entered - payment wasn't accepted. Full stop. Raining / what I wanted / who said what to who/ has nothing to do with anything. Just additional info - prob confusing - should stick to the facts me.
Credit card subsequently debited. I did not give further consent for this as the card was rejected initially, I didn't buy anything as far as I am concerned.
Holiday company say no record of " card details incorrect- going ahead . I want to know can credit card companies take money in these circumstances? As they are taking it anyway.i have disputed this , I would like to be able to have facts ...that's all. THKS
 
Do the terms applied to "distance selling" and its subsequent cooling off period not come into play here?
 
My problem is trying to get a copy of the electronic "message" that I got. This occurs when one pc talks to another.. Where it is .."is my present problem to prove that my c card was rejected.! Thks

Paddy, you won't have any luck receiving a copy of this 'message' as it will not be captured. There are two websites involved and the first website (holiday company) will capture and validate your personal details before passing the pertinent information to the 3rd party payment processor (like SagePay).

During the validation of the details that you entered the system will not capture any transactions as it will iterate until all correct details have been entered in the correct format required. It sounds like there is either a bug in the first website which posted an error message erroneously and then passed the pertinent details to the payment website or a combination of your keystrokes at the time displayed the message and then reprocessed successfully (fat finger syndrome!!).

The first website (holiday company) will only be able to verify your successful booking (or not), which it sounds like they have done. The second website (payment processor) can confirm when the payment transaction occurred and also if there were any failed attempts. This should allow you to determine if the holiday company did indeed re-post your payment details later in the day. I would think that this is unlikely but certainly possible for the holiday company to manually process the details again if they were correct initially.

The fact that you received an erroneous confirmation email is the only indication that something did not process correctly with this transaction and I would follow this up with the holiday company although you do not have much to work with here to be honest.

I sympathise with your position as I too would prefer a sun holiday to a rainy one but you may just have to take some responsibility here. Maybe you can sell the holiday on to someone at a small loss and rebook a sun holiday.

Either way, good luck and enjoy your destination wherever you end up.
 
Your spot on in every scenario you say here thks. I think your right about error message probably Not actually existing.im going to give it a run anyway. Dispute.

The fact I can't prove error message was there , they can't prove it wasn't as it was.
I'm going with , declination of card by them removes my implied consent for authority to take funds. They should have also looked for re authorisation / consent to process transaction at a later time ...however short the interval.
Added to that - I think there is an obligation for companies to dispose of financial information as soon as the necessity for having it is gone.

If so I maintain they should have disposed of my financial info after they declined the card provided. I didnt re enter the info / refresh the page or anything like that.
Will let Ya know how I go anyway ! Might help others in similar circumstances ....time will tell
 
It's probably neither relevant not very helpful but merchants can submit your card details for settlement even if there was never a previous online authorisation or if the authorisation was declined. Odd, yes. Illegal, no. You gave consent by submitting your details. The fact that some party to the transaction declined it does not remove your consent.
 
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