people not declaring rental homes

pAnTs

Registered User
Messages
216
I'm just wondering how people are getting away with this. I was just out with a friend who like myself is renting out an apartment. I was telling him that we had received a letter about the NPPR. we hadn't paid it and incurred a fine which we paid before the Friday deadline when the charge doubled! Anyway this friend said they hadn't received any letter and so had no intention of paying it. Now I know this friend never declared that they had married and moved and were now renting out their own property but they had said a couple of years ago that they were now registered and were paying what they owed. This person was a gym instructor and said that they only ever paid about €300 tax a year as they wrote everything off and never declared what they were really earning. I am so annoyed. I pay at least €20,000 per annum in income tax and USC PRSI etc and pay all the PRSI USC etc on the rental income too aswell as €2,000 management fees. My question is how can some people get away with paying pretty much zero tax??? I mean €300 a year???? so unfair on the rest of us. Also I know that obviously he never changed his address with revenue and the tenant is obviously not claiming any rent relief etc but isn't this system completely messed up???? how do they get away with it???
 
Bear in mind that a lot of people talk nonsense about their income and their taxes.

they had said a couple of years ago that they were now registered and were paying what they owed.

So, he was either lying then or he is lying now.

There is every chance that he will get caught if he is not declaring rental income. A dispute with the tenant could result in his being reported. He will end up paying far more than you are paying, as he will have to pay interest and fines.

This person was a gym instructor and said that they only ever paid about €300 tax a year as they wrote everything off and never declared what they were really earning.

Many people who get paid in cash, hide their earnings. He is a bit stupid to be telling you about it. If you realised that you were paying high taxes, because he is not paying his share, you might be tempted to report him.

Brendan
 
.... and the tenant is obviously not claiming any rent relief etc but isn't this system completely messed up???? how do they get away with it???
Rent Relief is being phased out by 2017 and tenants are only eligible if already renting at 7 December 2010.

I don't think the Government should have abolished rent relief, they should have reduced the rates as it was a very good way of tracking down non-compliant landlords.
 
The rent a room scheme has certainly been abused to some extent. It's supposed to be for people living in the home of the renter, I think originally the idea was one room could be rented, but it turned into rooms. From what I hear it's sometimes used by house owners who've moved out of their "home" but are renting it out. They just keep the bills in their name in case they're ever questioned on it.

I'm not sure the government can work out the cost of the scheme or how many people are using it, let alone abusing it, since it seems uncontrolled. They say on
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html
"If you do not make an annual tax return and your income from rent and related services is under the exemption limit of €10,000, you do not have to claim rent-a-room relief as it will apply automatically."
It's a generous concession even when it's used correctly. No USC or anything added, no need to tell revenue how much you made. It could be seen by some as an invitation to not be tax compliant.
 
Revenue and other govt departments aren't all that interested in catching people who evade the system, they are more interested in squeezing those already in there

Couple of years ago I had terrible noise problems with a neighbouring house which was rented. Couldn't get any details of who landlord was so went on to PRTB to try to find some info. Discovered there that house wasn't even reg'd with PRTB so I rang them to inform them. I was told to come back with the landlords name and PPSN and they would look into it. They didn't want to know.
 
It's a generous concession even when it's used correctly. No USC or anything added, no need to tell revenue how much you made. It could be seen by some as an invitation to not be tax compliant.

That some people may abuse it is not a good reason to propose doing away with it. The rent a room scheme serves other purposes - such as encouraging a more efficient use of existing housing stock. Furthermore, it is a lifeline for many burdened with long term debt. I used it myself for the first 6 years of my mortgage and it took the pain out of what are the most critical years of home loan repayment i.e. the first few years.

With regard to renting out more than one room, the number of rooms isn't specified - it's the 10K limit that's significant.


I'm not saying this is right, but is it such a loss to the state if that figure is exceeded slightly? With regard to those who truly abuse it - i.e. continue to claim under the scheme having moved out themselves - then there will always be a proportion of people who will do that. However, the potential penalties for this if uncovered are far from insignificant.


In any case, this is otherwise a very positive scheme - so that should not be forgotten should anyone consider doing away with it.
 
well I know two people who are both renting out 3 rooms in their house for at least €550 per month for each room. They are defo not declaring that!!! That I don't mind as much becuase at least these people are paying Tax on their income. This other person is neither paying tax on their income nor on their rental income. I just don't understand how revenue can not tackle this problem in some way...I mean there has to be some way that they can check. Can they not get different systems to talk to each other? like when people marry or something send them out letters to specify their address? It's just so unfair, I can't take the injustice of it! lets suppose they did change their address with revenue and he did say he was no longer at that address then could they tell from their revenue records that the presvious address was a home that was owned and not a rented property...therefor realising that they must be renting out that home???
 
well I know two people who are both renting out 3 rooms in their house for at least €550 per month for each room. They are defo not declaring that!!! That I don't mind as much becuase at least these people are paying Tax on their income. This other person is neither paying tax on their income nor on their rental income. I just don't understand how revenue can not tackle this problem in some way...I mean there has to be some way that they can check. Can they not get different systems to talk to each other? like when people marry or something send them out letters to specify their address? It's just so unfair, I can't take the injustice of it! lets suppose they did change their address with revenue and he did say he was no longer at that address then could they tell from their revenue records that the presvious address was a home that was owned and not a rented property...therefor realising that they must be renting out that home???

Revenue have plenty of info, but limited resources, and therefore it might take years to catch up.

Of course if you want to speed up the process you can write in to Revenue and draw their attention to it, rather than be grumpy and grumbling about it... ;)
 
no I couldn't do that, I would feel terrible guilty and two faced. I would much rather be grumpy and grumble about it. I just despair at how this country is run. The honest and good often seem to get punished while the lazy and dishonest seem to get rewarded (dont remind me of the man in Cork that had a party to celebrate 35 on the social) aghhhhhh why are people let stay on welfare for 35 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or dont mention the three skangers that HAD between eight and 69 previous convictions that attacked those American tourists??? 69 pervious convictions and never did time????? like arent there people in jail for not paying fines???? What is going on here??? madness.
 
no I couldn't do that, I would feel terrible guilty and two faced. I would much rather be grumpy and grumble about it. I just despair at how this country is run. The honest and good often seem to get punished while the lazy and dishonest seem to get rewarded.

Well that post sums up exactly why the country is run the way it is! Can you not see the irony in all your giving out and exclaiming, and yet you're not willing to actually draw the appropriate attention to what you know (or at least believe) to be fraud...

It's a cultural thing.... "Ah sure, it's ONLY... (Insert relatively minor fraud here)...", and "Oh now it's not my place to be a rat"...

If you saw a house down the road on fire, would you twitch the curtains wondering where the hell the fire brigade is, but not bother ringing them yourself?!
 
no I couldn't do that, I would feel terrible guilty and two faced. I would much rather be grumpy and grumble about it. I just despair at how this country is run. The honest and good often seem to get punished while the lazy and dishonest seem to get rewarded...

You're already being guilty and two faced by coming on here moaning about a person you said in the OP was a "friend". This has nothing to do with "how the country is run". It is to do with societal attitudes. What are you hoping will happen? ... that attitudes will just magically change in a country where your "friend" feels completely safe bragging about tax evasion?

Information on how to report tax fraud:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=134398
 
It's nice to think that all tax evasion can be fixed by people ringing up revenue with some info. That's not the way to run tax collection, you've got to make it difficult to evade, and also make it possible to prove the evasion after the tip off.

Rent-a-room was an FF policy where the main goal was to assist people to get bigger mortgages, and politically they wanted it as easy as possible for people use. If Revenue had been drawing up the rules it wouldn't have been with this wink about being tax compliant.

There's no other income taxed the same way, it's easy to see how an initally correct use of rent-a-room could morph into tax evasion. Even the comment about "is it such a loss to the state if that figure [10,000] is exceeded slightly" shows how easy it is to be relaxed about it. Some people now need to pay 7k in various penalties on a 200 euro a year property tax. Is "exceeded slightly" more or less than 4 euro extra a week?

Without the need for declaration, Revenue have no idea what's going on in rent-a-room and they have next to zero chance of detecting problems even if they get tip offs.
 
Rent-a-room was an FF policy where the main goal was to assist people to get bigger mortgages.

No, its main goal was to defuse the crisis of rocketing rents that blighted our cities and towns in the late 1990s/early 2000s. (In fact the rent-a-room scheme was first suggested on AAM around that time!).

There's no other income taxed the same way.

There is, the childminders exemption.

Without the need for declaration, Revenue have no idea what's going on in rent-a-room

Sorry, there is a statutory obligation to declare rent-a-room earnings on one's tax return.
 
If Revenue / Government incentivize tenants to declare that they are renting by claiming some sort of tax relief and if they are required to submit the LL's details, surely this is the easiest way to cross check if the LL is declaring the rental income.
 
If people have problems with others not paying tax and have "proof" of it, ring this revenue number, 01 6474000, they will take it up and it will be investigated. Remember to have facts, not suspicions, or, somebody told me, etc, etc. No need to moan about it here, report it, with the "facts" you have to back it up.
 
No, its main goal was to defuse the crisis of rocketing rents
Perhaps that's what they said they hoped would happen but we know what actually happened - the link below is from 2008
"As house prices and mortgage levels have increased, many first time buyers are seeking to add to income by renting out rooms in their newly acquired houses. Most lenders will take the potential for such income into account when assessing borrowing capacity."
http://www.mortgages.ie/go/first_time_buyers/information_for_first_time_buyers/renting-a-room
T McGibney said:
There is, the childminders exemption.
Fair enough.
T McGibney said:
Sorry, there is a statutory obligation to declare rent-a-room earnings on one's tax return.
Only if you have to make a return already. This is a valuable tax concession, it should in itself trigger the need to file a return.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html
If you do not make an annual tax return and your income from rent and related services is under the exemption limit of €10,000, you do not have to claim rent-a-room relief as it will apply automatically
 
Perhaps that's what they said they hoped would happen but we know what actually happened - the link below is from 2008

Its goal was, as I said, to relieve pressure on rents. The fact that some people abused it (fraudulently in many instances, citing non-existent "lodgers") to enhance mortgage applications is neither here nor there at this stage.


Only if you have to make a return already. This is a valuable tax concession, it should in itself trigger the need to file a return.

You are indeed 100% correct here.
 
no I couldn't do that, I would feel terrible guilty and two faced. I would much rather be grumpy and grumble about it. I just despair at how this country is run. The honest and good often seem to get punished while the lazy and dishonest seem to get rewarded (dont remind me of the man in Cork that had a party to celebrate 35 on the social) aghhhhhh why are people let stay on welfare for 35 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or dont mention the three skangers that HAD between eight and 69 previous convictions that attacked those American tourists??? 69 pervious convictions and never did time????? like arent there people in jail for not paying fines???? What is going on here??? madness.

YOU are the problem, how can you not see that?
 
If Revenue / Government incentivize tenants to declare that they are renting by claiming some sort of tax relief and if they are required to submit the LL's details, surely this is the easiest way to cross check if the LL is declaring the rental income.

They already had that - but they phased it out (or are phasing it out). I always thought it strange that they removed it....
 
Back
Top