Value Investing - Courses in Dublin? and Advice please

hi ringledman...

cigar butts and grahams approach works. The only problem over the last few decades is there hasnt been so many companies below tangible net asset value to buy. Graham always bought at least 1/3 below the tangible nav.

the trick was he bought enough of these stocks so was very well diversified..so even if a few went bust (which is going to happen) he still beat the market by miles.
Buffet and co of course now adapted grahams approach and buy below 'intrinsic value', and this is the approach i mostly use. Of course in the last year mr market has gotten very ill and is now giving companies away, in some cases at huge discounts to tangible nav.
That wont last too long though, once his medication kicks in. Its bargain time galore!

I have read a lot of mostly value investing related books over the last 2 years. I have learnt a heck of a lot. I have also made mistakes which i plan not to make again. Most of these were companies i bought before i read a lot of the value investing books.

The pyschology of the whole market fascinates me. The 'herd instinct' amongst the average investing public (including most fund managers) is unbelievable. I just do the total opposite. Ive trained myself to do this. Id also say the contrarian approach is also part of the way we are wired.

However much i cannot stand the media circus at the moment, they are doing long term value investors a great service. They are frightening the life out of people, causing them to sell their shares and so on.....bargain time!

'Graham always bought at least 1/3 below the tangible nav'. - Such nonsense. Name companies that are selling for this which would be tantmount to free money.

Its amazing the absurd things people believe.
 
lemur..lol

that just shows how little you know.

Is there an 'ignore' button on askaboutmoney.com??
 
lemur..lol

that just shows how little you know.

Is there an 'ignore' button on askaboutmoney.com??

LOL. Oh great. So name a company somebody can buy for say $66.6m and then sell the assets for $100m. Free money. If you believe this, you clearly know nothing about the market and its pricing mechanisms.
 
LOL. Oh great. So name a company somebody can buy for say $66.6m and then sell the assets for $100m. Free money. If you believe this, you clearly know nothing about the market and its pricing mechanisms.

Lemur please let us know when you will be giving your talk about how the pros trade the market I want to know what stocks to avoid that people like you are promoting.

You sell yourself as some big hitter in the financial industry but you have yet to produce one convincing argument to back your position up unlike smiley.
 
'Graham always bought at least 1/3 below the tangible nav'. - Such nonsense. Name companies that are selling for this which would be tantmount to free money.

Its amazing the absurd things people believe.

Yes he believes in the efficient market theory. Shares always represent their true market value with all known information priced in.

b*******s.

Lemur please present your investment strategy you obviously know so much more than us mere mortals. Eagerly anticipating your investment lecture.
 
Lemur please let us know when you will be giving your talk about how the pros trade the market I want to know what stocks to avoid that people like you are promoting.

You sell yourself as some big hitter in the financial industry but you have yet to produce one convincing argument to back your position up unlike smiley.

? I don't promote any stocks?

big hitter? I have made no claims other than I am a trader.

Unlike smiley - what convincing arguments has he produced other than he does not even understand basic market pricing mechanisms on the basis of what was written above.
 
tyoung..well done.

those companies you mentioned and lots of others crossed my mind.

the great thing about value investing is most speculators and investors wont believe you, or have a clue what you are talking about....which, is brilliant for us.

buying dollars for 50 cent or less is what value investing is all about. You either get this or you dont. Christoper Browne (tweedy browne) talks about this in his book- 'the little book of value investing'.

ringledman....emt..lol..its a total joke. Markets are efficient in the long term, but short term a total roller coaster ride!

I just see the stock market as a buying or selling mechanism for shares..thats all it is. Its got very little to do with company you own. Once you understand that, what happens in the stock market doesnt matter a flying monkeys. To be honest i have really only understood this in the last year or so.

Every time the stock market plummets now, i get very excited. Mamma mia....they are giving away some of the best businesses in the world at ridiculously low prices. I never thought this opportunity would exist.

By the way as an exercise..go to yahoo.com/finance and graph for example the sp500 or the dow for the last 70-80 years............whats the general trend? answer=up. Can you spot the market crash of e.g 1987? or even sept 11th? or 2000-2001?..........you might just make out a blip...but thats about it.

you would really wonder what the fuss is all about!
 
tyoung..well done.

those companies you mentioned and lots of others crossed my mind.

the great thing about value investing is most speculators and investors wont believe you, or have a clue what you are talking about....which, is brilliant for us.

buying dollars for 50 cent or less is what value investing is all about. You either get this or you dont. Christoper Browne (tweedy browne) talks about this in his book- 'the little book of value investing'.

ringledman....emt..lol..its a total joke. Markets are efficient in the long term, but short term a total roller coaster ride!

I just see the stock market as a buying or selling mechanism for shares..thats all it is. Its got very little to do with company you own. Once you understand that, what happens in the stock market doesnt matter a flying monkeys. To be honest i have really only understood this in the last year or so.

Every time the stock market plummets now, i get very excited. Mamma mia....they are giving away some of the best businesses in the world at ridiculously low prices. I never thought this opportunity would exist.

By the way as an exercise..go to yahoo.com/finance and graph for example the sp500 or the dow for the last 70-80 years............whats the general trend? answer=up. Can you spot the market crash of e.g 1987? or even sept 11th? or 2000-2001?..........you might just make out a blip...but thats about it.

you would really wonder what the fuss is all about!


'buying dollars for 50 cent or less is what value investing is all about.' - Totally daft comment. There is no free money like this available in the market. On this basis somebody could just buy the company and sell the assets for a 100% return. Anybody who believes this is possible deserves to lose their money.

Over the last ten years the S&P500 has returned 13.8% inc dividends, approx 1.7% per year. So the lay person is better sitting in cash in a bank account with no risk.
 
Current Forbes article on Ben Graham and buying stocks for less than net current assets.
http://www.forbes.com/home/forbes/2008/1110/056.html
And yet another article.
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/10/8/business/2211821&sec=business

Use just a modicum of common sense here. If a company was selling for less than its NAV then speculators would quickly move in, buy the company and sell the assets for a nice return.

Much of the book value quoted by companies is fiction. For that first article, go down and read the comment on Croc. A deeper dig into the numbers on that table will open a can of accounting worms in all of those cheap stock price companies. Healthy growing companies all have premiums built into their stock price.
 
lemur..i didnt mention book value...

you are talking nonsense and are showing your complete ignorance here.


in fact, get off this thread please. We are trying to have an educated debate here.

you are a messer...wind up merchant.
 
lemur..i didnt mention book value...

you are talking nonsense and are showing your complete ignorance here.


in fact, get off this thread please. We are trying to have an educated debate here.

you are a messer...wind up merchant.

Obviously you don't even know what book value is...

My last post on this thread.
 
lemur..i didnt mention book value...

you are talking nonsense and are showing your complete ignorance here.


in fact, get off this thread please. We are trying to have an educated debate here.

you are a messer...wind up merchant.

What right have you to tell another poster to "get off" a thread?

Why do you lower the tone by making personal insults?

I may not agree with lemur's points, but I believe s/he has a right to make them here without being insulted or attacked. If you don't agree with another poster's opinion, why can't you produce verifiable facts to contradict it rather than attacking the poster?
 
A deeper dig into the numbers on that table will open a can of accounting worms in all of those cheap stock price companies. Healthy growing companies all have premiums built into their stock price.

And yet studies have repeatedly shown that buying stocks at very low P/Bs greatly outperforms.
 
And yet studies have repeatedly shown that buying stocks at very low P/Bs greatly outperforms.
Not saying I don't believe you but if you're going to say something like that you need to give examples of the studies and list the assumptions made in the studies because every study will make assumptions. I'm sure there are studies to show the opposite result too.
 
Not saying I don't believe you but if you're going to say something like that you need to give examples of the studies and list the assumptions made in the studies because every study will make assumptions. I'm sure there are studies to show the opposite result too.

There are many more if the below doesn't suffice. No assumptions made. If you know of a single reputable study that finds that growth stocks outperform in statistically significant out of sample periods please post it as I don't know of any.

Basu, Sanjoy, "Investment Performance of Common Stocks in Relation to Their Price-Earnings Ratios: A Test of the Efficient Market Hypothesis," Journal of Finance 32 (1977): 663-682.

Basu, Sanjoy, "The Relationship between Earnings Yield, Market Value and Return for NYSE Common Stocks: Further Evidence," Journal of Financial Economics 12 (1983): 129-156.

Jaffe, Jeffrey, Donald B. Keim, and Randolph Westerfield, "Earnings Yields, Market Values, and Stock Returns," Journal of Finance 44 (1989): 135-148.

Rosenberg, Barr, Kenneth Reid, and Ronald Lanstein, "Persuasive Evidence of Market Inefficiency," Journal of Portfolio Management 11 (1985): 9-17.

Chan, Louis K.C., Yasushi Hamao, and Josef Lakonishok, "Fundamentals and Stock Returns in Japan," Journal of Finance 46 (1991): 1739-1789.

Fama, Eugene F., and Kenneth R. French, "The Cross-Section of Expected Stock Returns," Journal of Finance 47 (1992): 427-465.

Davis, James L., "The Cross-Section of Realized Stock Returns: The Pre-COMPUSTAT Evidence," Journal of Finance 49 (1994): 1579-1593.

Chan, Louis K.C., Narasimhan Jegadeesh, and Josef Lakonishok, "Evaluating the Performance of Value Versus Glamour Stocks: The Impact of Selection Bias," Journal of Financial Economics 38 (1995): 269-296.

Barber, Brad M., and John D. Lyon, "Firm Size, Book-to-Market Ratio, and Security Returns: A Holdout Sample of Financial Firms," Journal of Finance 52 (1997): 875-883.

Fama, Eugene F., and Kenneth R. French, "Value Versus Growth: The International Evidence," Journal of Finance 53 (1998): 1975-1999.

Capaul, Carlo, Ian Rowley and William F. Sharpe, "International Value and Growth Stock Returns," Financial Analysts Journal 49 (1993): 27-36.
 
Growth stocks are the way to make money in the equities market. With all due respect the value investing argument is the way brokers off load stocks that nobody wants to the gullible public. O'Neill's books and many other studies have illustrated this.

What studies?
 
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