Spirit Of Ireland . . Energy Alternative . .

NorthDrum · #1 07-05-2009, 10:23 AM

http://www.spiritofireland.org/index.php

Heard this on Pat Kenny earlier . . Any thoughts . . .

mathepac · #2 07-05-2009, 10:45 AM

The plan is not only to destroy our landscape, one of our irreplaceable natural assets, with massive wind-farms, but to further compromise the natural amenity of our landscape with huge water reservoirs, doubling or trebling the scenery damage.

That's one major issue. The other issues arising are that a number of these "green energy" and other ill-conceived initiatives have, even in the development stages, caused havoc in their local environments, e.g. Derrybrien in Co. Galway (more info here http://www.woodlandleague.org/communities/derrybrien/ ) ,Clonmel in Co. Tipperary (more info here http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...357841220.html ). So it would appear the developers / promoters lack the requisite experience to carry out these projects and the local authorities are ill-equipped to adequately evaluate environmental impact studies, if and when such studies are carried out or made available.

I would much prefer to see major initiatives in the reduction of energy demand (not like Gormley's ridiculous light-bulb ban, see here for some relevant info, http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6211261.ece) and thereby the need for additional generating capacity.

Latrade · #3 07-05-2009, 10:46 AM

Heard this too on Newstalk. Sounds interesting (self sufficient in 5 years is bound to be of interest), but I've yet to hear or see any real substance.

I understand there may be some issue about giving all your secrets away, but I'd also like to look over some of the technical data. For example how big are these rock dams? Is it a case of flooding the Cliffs of Moher? (OK exaggeration.)

Costings, plans, data, etc. Comments like "A team of experts" without any reference to who they are always makes me a bit sceptical. If this is the answer, if this is feasible, if they are experts, why aren't their names beside it?

Early days though and hopefully there'll be more substance soon. Until then....I reserve the right to be slightly sceptical.

TSThomas · #4 07-05-2009, 08:16 PM

Sounds like a wonderful theory but I seem to recall much hype over that zero point energy via magnets last year / year before too... whatever happened to that?

TSThomas · #5 10-05-2009, 11:21 AM

Heard a lot more on Newstalk about it today, Okinawa has such a facility already;

http://seawaterpower.com/mp-sps.html

So we certainly could be onto something, whether the green brigade'll try derail it is another matter.

smiley · #6 10-05-2009, 07:22 PM

It looks like a very good idea..we have to reduce our reliance of imported fossil fuels.

Id rather this option than the nuclear one.

extopia · #7 10-05-2009, 08:50 PM

Essentially this scheme is a method of storing wind power by using it to pump water into storage lakes for a hydroelectric system. In theory, it's a very good idea. But of course we need more detail on the costs, the efficiency, and the generation capacity of such a system. I think it's fascinating, and well worth having a look at. Why not?

Not sure why the promoters are trying to get the public to sign up though - presumably they're trying to get as many people onside early in order to avoid a situation such as the Shell to Sea fiasco.

Protocol · #8 11-05-2009, 08:55 AM

We already have a pumped storage hydro facility in Wicklow.

Two more of them would not destroy the landscape, sure they are just big lakes.

Plus, I find wind turbines to be things of beauty, spinning in the wind.

I'd build thousands of them, mostly out at sea.

Protocol · #9 11-05-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathepac

The plan is not only to destroy our landscape, one of our irreplaceable natural assets, with massive wind-farms, but to further compromise the natural amenity of our landscape with huge water reservoirs, doubling or trebling the scenery damage.

No, I don't think these lakes would really "compromise the natural amenity of our landscape"

This one in Wicklow doesn't look too bad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Turlough_Hill.jpg

tiger · #10 11-05-2009, 10:18 AM

I have to say I like the idea, not sure how implementable it will be.
I think we'll need something closer to the 3 gorges dam rather than turlough hill.
3 gorges will have a capacity of 22,500 MW, turlough hill is 292 MW.
Can't find a reference, but I believe our peak demand is close to 5,000 MW
I don't know how much water you would need stored up to generate this for a sustained period (I think turlough hill only goes for a few hours at a time, to meet spikes in demand?).
A single wind turbine is between 1-5MW (I think), so you'd need thousands to generate the power, and they'd have to be spread all over the country to allow for some non windy periods?
(this article suggests commercial wind turbines cost $1-2M per MW of power generated).

Damo · #11 12-05-2009, 07:20 AM

This is a very impressive idea. It utilises so many natural advantages we have as a country. I hope it will get the necessary backing and support. To me this would be a real legacy to leave our children. I just hope it does not get hyjacked by various campainers. This is the sort of srtategic thinking we need as a country.

Damo.

tiger · #12 12-05-2009, 01:23 PM

letter in today's indo from Professor of Physics in NUIG questioning some of the numbers a little also.

Betsy Og · #13 12-05-2009, 02:47 PM

I think if you could site the turbines a few miles offshore (they are then nearly invisible against the horizon) it would be a no brainer in environmental terms, cost would of course be an issue. On that note what ever happen to the huge wind farm to go on the Arklow sandbank or thereabouts.

Overall I'm very in favour. The lakes are supposed to be "high glacial valleys" - i.e. on the back of a mountain that backs onto the ocean. Very scenic I'm sure but all the more so with a drop of water in it. The windfarms doesnt need to be sited beside it.

As regards objections - I'm increasingly dismayed by the scum manning the Shell to Sea protest and wonder if they have much support. Republican anarchists types seem to be to the fore.

Let us make an educated and balanced choice as regards windfarms - I'm thinking there are plenty of low amenity areas to put windmills. Who ever heard of Mullaghmore before or since the proposed building there - I'm sure there are loads of other "national treaures" about to be discovered if the process goes ahead.

tiger · #14 12-05-2009, 06:02 PM

The whole thing reminds me of the vega city proposal for north Dublin a few years back.
I hope this is different.

TSThomas · #15 12-05-2009, 08:59 PM

Could always go Nuclear of course.

extopia · #16 12-05-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy Og

I'm increasingly dismayed by the scum manning the Shell to Sea protest ...

Be aware that this kind of language tends to distract from and undermine your essential point.

tiger · #17 13-05-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger

letter in today's indo from Professor of Physics in NUIG questioning some of the numbers a little also.

Should note that Prof. Walton is a campaigner for nuclear energy link
His father Ernest Walton won a Nobel prize for physics.

Betsy Og · #18 13-05-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by extopia

Be aware that this kind of language tends to distract from and undermine your essential point.

Well, lets just say they havent been very well behaved of late. Those Columbian birdwatchers are a tough crowd.

Damo · #19 13-05-2009, 10:03 AM

I love the idea and concept. Does anyone know the next steps to get this beyond concept. Is there funduning, planning, resources, political backing etc.

chippengael · #20 28-05-2009, 02:13 PM

The word is that the promoters of this scheme are getting facetime with politicians at the very top (Cowen, Gormley...). This one could have legs. It's a good news story in a time of bad news, and it ticks many PR boxes: green, renewable, hi-tech, indigenous, jobs. If it proves to be technically worthwhile, it shouldn' t be hard to sell it to a public eager for some progressive thinking.