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  #1  
Old 25-01-2012, 04:51 PM
Alwyn Alwyn is offline
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Default Who will the new Personal Insolvency Trustees be?

Who can you elect to be a PIA Trustee? Accountant, Solicitor?? If so, are either of these professionals selected by the bank or the mortgage holder themselves?
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  #2  
Old 31-01-2012, 10:37 AM
Commercial Commercial is offline
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I'd be interested in the answer to this question?
Who appoints the trustees?
Who pays for them?
How much do they charge?
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  #3  
Old 31-01-2012, 12:26 PM
Brendan Burgess Brendan Burgess is offline
 
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There was a piece in Sunday's Paper, probably the SBP, saying that a lot of mortgage brokers are looking forward to becoming Insolvency Trustees.

Brendan
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  #4  
Old 31-01-2012, 12:55 PM
Commercial Commercial is offline
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Yeah, it was in the SBP from my recollection. The bill will have to be passed first before trustees can be appointed I presume.
Nice piece as well Brendan
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  #5  
Old 31-01-2012, 03:54 PM
Brendan Burgess Brendan Burgess is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercial View Post
Nice piece as well Brendan
Thanks.
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  #6  
Old 13-02-2012, 07:19 PM
Brendan Burgess Brendan Burgess is offline
 
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In the UK licensed insolvency trustees are usually accountants and solicitors and I understand that the plan is to restrict it to them.

That is fair enough from a quality point of view, but as partners in accountancy firms are paid €375 per hour, it could be a very expensive process.

Some people have set up in Ireland as liquidators without any qualification, and there is a danger that this could also be the outcome.

Many liquidators, especially of small companies, realise only sufficient assets to cover their fees. There is little or nothing left for the creditors.

Brendan
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  #7  
Old 13-02-2012, 09:06 PM
jack2009 jack2009 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
Who can you elect to be a PIA Trustee? Accountant, Solicitor?? If so, are either of these professionals selected by the bank or the mortgage holder themselves?
It has not yet been determined who can act as a PIA, head 54 states
“Personal Insolvency Trustee” shall be construed for the purposes of this Part as a person [licensed] [authorised] who performs the functions of a personal insolvency trustee under the provisions of this Part."
Their are rumours of mortgage brokers throwing their hand at it!

I take your point regarding the charge out rate of accountants but the system works in the UK so personally from what I understand of the Bill the big problem will be the cost of carry out the work for a person who has no money (double negative!)
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  #8  
Old 14-02-2012, 10:38 AM
Brendan Burgess Brendan Burgess is offline
 
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The High Court is reducing the fees of insolvency practitioners to €375 + VAT per hour. I understand tha, for the non-court work , the charge tends to be €200 + Vat per hour or €250.

It's hard to see how these PIAs can work.

Brendan
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  #9  
Old 14-02-2012, 10:49 AM
44brendan 44brendan is offline
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The whole area of insolvency costs and high accountant/solicitor charges remains as a significant deterrent to the process. I.e. I have personally been involved in insolvency cases where the secured creditors end up with a fraction of the funds realised due to the inability of the Bank to cap the outlay and charges applied.
The system is now undergoing some changes. i.e. Some of the Banks are only appointing receivers on the basis of a fixed fee level, with any additional work being subject to prior agreement. This is the only basis that can work for a PIA. I.e. A set fee regulated by the authorities. There are plenty of good accountants solicitors out there (outside of the major firms) who would be more than happy to take on this work at a reasonable level of compensation.
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  #10  
Old 14-02-2012, 03:17 PM
jack2009 jack2009 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan Burgess View Post
The High Court is reducing the fees of insolvency practitioners to €375 + VAT per hour. I understand tha, for the non-court work , the charge tends to be €200 + Vat per hour or €250.

It's hard to see how these PIAs can work.

Brendan
The High Court is not only reducing rates but putting liquidators under pressure to justify their level of fees eg why were so many hours doing x when x was not required.
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  #11  
Old 15-04-2012, 01:47 PM
ballaboy ballaboy is offline
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Spoke to a Solicitor lately,he told me total lecture time on Bankruptcy was a half hour when he was doing Law,that would not be encouraging.There are people around the country providing this service for years when Solicitors and Accountants were looking after the Developers.Think experince should be the yard stick
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  #12  
Old 15-04-2012, 10:37 PM
callaghanj callaghanj is offline
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The average fee in the Uk for an IVA is less than £5,000 for 5 years work and fees are approved and fixed by creditors. I expect creditors in Ireland to follow suit and keep fees at acceptable levels. The IVA pocess is highly regulated and all IP's must sit exams specific to their indusrty ie insolvency and must also have relevant experience to obtain a practicising cert. Ireland should follow suit.
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2012, 07:11 AM
Steve Thatcher Steve Thatcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callaghanj View Post
The average fee in the Uk for an IVA is less than £5,000 for 5 years work and fees are approved and fixed by creditors. I expect creditors in Ireland to follow suit and keep fees at acceptable levels. The IVA pocess is highly regulated and all IP's must sit exams specific to their indusrty ie insolvency and must also have relevant experience to obtain a practicising cert. Ireland should follow suit.
I think this is right. I will be applying to be an IP. I suspect that the PIA and the DSA will be on the basis of a fixed fee for the proposal and then a management fee for each year in operation

Steve Thatcher
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2012, 08:14 AM
Bronte Bronte is offline
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Can we clarify the terms?

IP - Insolvency practioner

PIA - Personal Insolvency administrator

DSA - ?
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2012, 10:47 AM
Steve Thatcher Steve Thatcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronte View Post
Can we clarify the terms?

IP - Insolvency practioner

PIA - Personal Insolvency administrator

DSA - ?
Sorry Bronte,

IP insolvency practitioner, PIA personal insolvency arrangement and DSA debt settlement arrangement

Steve
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  #16  
Old 27-09-2012, 09:43 PM
Palerider Palerider is offline
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Any further clarity on who can apply or how to apply to become an insolvency practioner, understand the Bill has gone through committee stage and imagine this piece remains unclear..?
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  #17  
Old 28-09-2012, 04:12 PM
Kerrigan Kerrigan is offline
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Palerider, its all still very unclear but my bet is firmly placed on the debt management companies that are currently in existence.
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  #18  
Old 04-10-2012, 01:43 PM
Steve Thatcher Steve Thatcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Palerider, its all still very unclear but my bet is firmly placed on the debt management companies that are currently in existence.
First they will need to create the Insolvency Service and it will be the service I understand who will approve and regulate the Personal Insolvency Trustees.
In my opinion unless these are people with proper insolvency experience, the process will flounder.
The PIA's and DSA are complicated to set up and will need administration year on year, something only professional organisations could achieve immediately

Steve Thatcher
Www.debtoptions.ie
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2012, 08:57 AM
Kerrigan Kerrigan is offline
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I think if the service is not properly regulated it will be open to abuse.
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  #20  
Old 23-12-2012, 12:09 PM
Wishes Wishes is offline
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Is it still unclear who will be appointed a PIT?

I'm concerned by how little information there is out there regarding the appointment of trustees.
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