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  #1  
Old 16-11-2011, 12:13 PM
ajapale ajapale is offline
 
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Default MEP - Childers kicking up over Kevin Cardiff. Is she right?

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Originally Posted by ontour View Post
MEP - Childers kicking up over Kevin Cardiff.
Is Nessa Childers correct to kick up a stink about this? In fairness its not a parish pump issue although it does smack of opportunistic populism.

aj
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  #2  
Old 16-11-2011, 03:32 PM
blueband blueband is offline
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i think she was correct, at least she is speaking up, most of the others are just keeping their heads down.
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  #3  
Old 16-11-2011, 05:41 PM
DerKaiser DerKaiser is offline
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No. I think this is a case of misdirected anger. It is an accounting error of the most harmless kind that anyone used to dealing with numbers & planning in a large organisation would not bat an eyelid at.
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  #4  
Old 16-11-2011, 05:50 PM
micmclo micmclo is offline
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A few years ago I would be amazed at a sum of a billion

Now with the constant news and stories of billions and billions, the numbers just wash over me.

Maybe that's just me.
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  #5  
Old 17-11-2011, 09:15 AM
cork cork is offline
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Originally Posted by micmclo View Post
A few years ago I would be amazed at a sum of a billion

Now with the constant news and stories of billions and billions, the numbers just wash over me.

Maybe that's just me.
No- a retired economist told me that he never used the word "billion" - It makes light of the amount.

Cardiff is being promoted and Childers was silenced by those in the Labour Party.

Cardiff was responsible for the error and the Labour Party are afraid of the issue being even raised.
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  #6  
Old 17-11-2011, 09:42 AM
Rovers1901 Rovers1901 is offline
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Originally Posted by cork View Post
No- a retired economist told me that he never used the word "billion" - It makes light of the amount.

Cardiff is being promoted and Childers was silenced by those in the Labour Party.

Cardiff was responsible for the error and the Labour Party are afraid of the issue being even raised.
How was he responsible for the error, other than being the Sec Gen?

What exactly was the error, I haven't seen any account other than journalistic accounts which seem to me to be based on playing off one agency's leaking against the other.

I fail to see how Cardiff can be held to account for this in the absence of any detail of what actually happened.

The media has its line and is happy to go with it, that doesn't mean it's the right one.
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  #7  
Old 17-11-2011, 09:51 AM
Mpsox Mpsox is offline
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Originally Posted by Rovers1901 View Post
How was he responsible for the error, other than being the Sec Gen?

.
He's responsible because it happened in his departement, they had been told about it previously and did nothing.

He wasn't directly resonsible from a day to day operational perspective (and I'm assuming the email from NAMA was not sent to him) but if a leader of a dept or company takes all the plaudits and credits for good things then they have to accept the opposite for bad things
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  #8  
Old 17-11-2011, 10:07 AM
onq onq is offline
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The fact that it happened on his watch is evidence of incompetent checks in the system.

The fact that his department was told of it and failed to act is something I would expect would lead to demotion or sidemotion, not something I would expect to see someone get promoted for.
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  #9  
Old 17-11-2011, 10:07 AM
onq onq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerKaiser View Post
No. I think this is a case of misdirected anger. It is an accounting error of the most harmless kind that anyone used to dealing with numbers & planning in a large organisation would not bat an eyelid at.
This dry wit seems to be catching...
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  #10  
Old 17-11-2011, 10:08 AM
Complainer Complainer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cork View Post
Cardiff was responsible for the error and the Labour Party are afraid of the issue being even raised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpsox View Post
He's responsible because it happened in his departement, they had been told about it previously and did nothing.

He wasn't directly resonsible from a day to day operational perspective (and I'm assuming the email from NAMA was not sent to him) but if a leader of a dept or company takes all the plaudits and credits for good things then they have to accept the opposite for bad things
Why is Cardiff responsible and the Minster is not responsible? The Minister is in charge of the Dept, so should Noonan resign?

For the record, I think Childers is right about the EU Auditor role.
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  #11  
Old 17-11-2011, 11:15 AM
Mpsox Mpsox is offline
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Originally Posted by Complainer View Post
Why is Cardiff responsible and the Minster is not responsible? The Minister is in charge of the Dept, so should Noonan resign?

For the record, I think Childers is right about the EU Auditor role.
My understanding is that the initial error was reported under Brian Lenihans watch and not Noonans. However given the scale of the error, frankly, anyone who was directly involved should be discplined, including those in NAMA who sent the mail but may not have escalated or followed it up. "I sent an email on it" is not sufficient in my books. If that means the relevant Minister has to fall on his sword, so be it
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  #12  
Old 17-11-2011, 11:19 AM
Shawady Shawady is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpsox View Post
My understanding is that the initial error was reported under Brian Lenihans watch
Well there's the solution. Blame the dead guy.
Isn't that the line Haughey used against his deceased accountant?
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  #13  
Old 17-11-2011, 01:12 PM
Mpsox Mpsox is offline
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Originally Posted by Shawady View Post
Well there's the solution. Blame the dead guy.
Isn't that the line Haughey used against his deceased accountant?
Isn't it FGs standard response at the minute?, not our fault, blame Lenihan/FF
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  #14  
Old 17-11-2011, 10:47 PM
Complainer Complainer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpsox View Post
My understanding is that the initial error was reported under Brian Lenihans watch and not Noonans. However given the scale of the error, frankly, anyone who was directly involved should be discplined, including those in NAMA who sent the mail but may not have escalated or followed it up. "I sent an email on it" is not sufficient in my books. If that means the relevant Minister has to fall on his sword, so be it
But Cardiff wasn't directly involved in it, so he shouldn't be disciplined - right?
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  #15  
Old 18-11-2011, 07:21 AM
Mpsox Mpsox is offline
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Originally Posted by Complainer View Post
But Cardiff wasn't directly involved in it, so he shouldn't be disciplined - right?
If it happened in his department then he is responsible. That's the joys of the big pay cheque.
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  #16  
Old 18-11-2011, 07:33 AM
Complainer Complainer is offline
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Originally Posted by Mpsox View Post
If it happened in his department then he is responsible. That's the joys of the big pay cheque.
So then Noonan has to go as well - right?
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  #17  
Old 18-11-2011, 07:42 AM
micmclo micmclo is offline
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Considering Noonan didn't resign over his treatment of Bridget McCole and her family, he'll never resign over anything
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  #18  
Old 18-11-2011, 11:07 AM
Mpsox Mpsox is offline
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Originally Posted by Complainer View Post
So then Noonan has to go as well - right?
yes
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  #19  
Old 18-11-2011, 12:04 PM
T McGibney T McGibney is offline
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Make no mistake, this was a colossal error.

If Cardiff is shown to have dealt inadequately with it, he should at least stand at risk of dismissal. Even if he wasn't directly involved. Its not uncommon for a private sector professional to be sacked for failing to deal adequately with a scandal or fraud.

The same applies to Michael Noonan, if he is shown to be culpable, although Cardiff's problems are compounded by his senior involvement in the inept management of the Dept of Finance in the Cowen era. I'm amazed that the Labour Party are now defending Cowen's cronies. At least Dick Spring's administration had the balls to clear out the Attorney General's office in 1994. Sending Cardiff to Europe sounds like the financial equivalent of what the Norbertine Order did with Fr Brendan Smyth.
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