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Old 30-12-2010, 11:15 AM
Passport1 Passport1 is offline
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Default LED getting covered in black dust on FireBird Enviromax Oil Boiler

]Hi
I have a FireBird Enviromax Oil Boiler
Every week or two the boiler starts at appointed times but the boiler coughs and splutters and doesnt start up - its like if it trying to power up but it cant and is coughing to clear something.

The problem appears to be that an LED sensor in the boiler is getting covered in black dust -
If i clean the led sensor with a piece of tissue and put in back in the system starts up and works
This seems to happen every couple of weeks
Anyone know why this would be happening and what needs to be done, if anything to stop this from happening. Im assuming ti something to do with the oil - its kerosene
The workaroound works in terms of fixing the problem but would like to figure out why this happens and if anything can be done to fix it so to stop it
Thanks
  #2  
Old 30-12-2010, 11:51 AM
Hoagy Hoagy is offline
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That's soot you're getting, means the flame isn't clean.
It needs a service.
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Old 30-12-2010, 12:49 PM
Towger Towger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoagy View Post
that's soot you're getting, means the flame isn't clean.
It needs a service.
+1
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Old 30-12-2010, 02:02 PM
esox esox is offline
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I'll try and explain what's happening, but you will need to get an oftec reg. engineer out to commission the boiler.

I'm presuming the boiler is located in a boiler house, this seem to be happening to bout 1 in 10 boilers but its more to do with positioning of flue the fault occurs when small amounts of the flue gas 'steam condensate that comes from the chimney' are sucked into the air in take of the burner located on the underneath of the flue.

there is three way of overcoming this problem (must be not be attempted by yourself you will invalidate your warranty)

1. you engineer can increase the oil pressure by 1/4 of a bar which will in turn allow the increase of air intake, thus driving the flue gases further away from the air in take.

2.firebird have designed a flue collar which deflects the flue gases from air intake give them or your local merchants a call about this new product.

3. install a plume kit which diverts the flue gases up into the atmosphere
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Old 30-12-2010, 03:13 PM
DGOBS DGOBS is offline
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esox, how will increasing the oil pressure increase the air intake???

Surely, to increase the oil pressure, ie. increasing the through-put of the nozzle increases oil flow, increases the available push/pressure in the combustion chamber and provides increased atomization of the fuel.

The air is provided by the fan and with increased oil flow, this thus decreases the excess air content, thus increasing the co2 content (all proven with a flue gas analyser)

There is also an issue with this if the boiler is set to the max output, to increase oil pressure will in effect over fire the appliance, and efficency will be slightly diminished, so a drop in nozzle size should also be considered when increasing oil pressure to avoid this situation

IMHO, this is all a cause and effect of the rear flue on said boiler, causing pressurization of the combustion chamber, coupled with the added resistance of the secondary heat exchanger to be overcome, if recycling at the terminal was the direct cause, surely this would be seen on the FGA as a rise on CO levels, and the existing fule in use is not dissimilar to competitors boilers (grant, warmflow, etc) which do not suffer the same issues.

PO, this 'LED' is actually a photocell that monitors/proves the presence of a flame for safety
  #6  
Old 30-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Passport1 Passport1 is offline
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Default Re:LED getting covered in black dust on FireBird Enviromax Oil Boiler

Thanks for replies
The boiler was fitted around Aug 2009 so maybe it does need service
Boiler is located in the back garden in a boiler house but i think it is regarded as an indoor boiler

The problem with the LED and the dust/soot started shortly after system was installed. It was the heating engineer who installed it who showed me about the LED 1st time it happened and how to sort it out, so not sure if servicing wil solve the issue

There is a flue coming out of the boiler house but it is quite short compared to the flue the neighbours have out of their boilder houses. Have coupe pics of it but dont seem to be able to attach them here. - if you know how to attach them let me know and i will add them to the post

Sound like suggestions by last poster could be root of problem and will follow up

Thanks
  #7  
Old 30-12-2010, 03:23 PM
DGOBS DGOBS is offline
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A service and proper boiler adjustment in the majority of cases is all that is required,
as esox said, always use a registered oftec service technician (www.oftec.org for a listing of your area)
  #8  
Old 30-12-2010, 10:27 PM
Froggie Froggie is offline
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I had the exact same problem, I have opened up the air slide to improve excess air in the flu gas. I haven't had any issues since.

Your neighbours may not have balanced flu boilers so they can have taller chimneys with no adverse effect.
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  #9  
Old 30-12-2010, 11:32 PM
DGOBS DGOBS is offline
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To adjust boiler settings yourself is madness, without the correct analysis.
You can easily cause the production of large amounts of carbon monoxide with an
incorrect adjustment (in either direction)
  #10  
Old 31-12-2010, 10:48 AM
Froggie Froggie is offline
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I used a gas analyser
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Old 31-12-2010, 12:56 PM
DGOBS DGOBS is offline
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Lol, sorry mate, just sounded like an adjust and hope for the best comment!
  #12  
Old 31-12-2010, 01:40 PM
Froggie Froggie is offline
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no it was a bit more scientific than that, CO was too high initially but barely registering when I was finished.

I am still not 100% happy though as the % Air seems to adjust itself depending on ambient temp. If thats the case I will have to adjust the ratio every time the temperature changes by more than 5c......or find out where the restriction is.
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  #13  
Old 31-12-2010, 03:56 PM
esox esox is offline
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Quote:
Surely, to increase the oil pressure, ie. increasing the through-put of the nozzle increases oil flow, increases the available push/pressure in the combustion chamber and provides increased atomization of the fuel.
valid point, increased atomization of fuel but you will therefore have to increase air intake to reduce you co2 level to 11.5% driving up your excess air through combustion chamber.

Quote:
IMHO, this is all a cause and effect of the rear flue on said boiler, causing pressurization of the combustion chamber, coupled with the added resistance of the secondary heat exchanger to be overcome, if recycling at the terminal was the direct cause, surely this would be seen on the FGA as a rise on CO levels, and the existing fule in use is not dissimilar to competitors boilers (grant, warmflow, etc) which do not suffer the same issues
true this is the main reason why this is taking place pressuring in combustion chamber imo baffle arrangement to restrictive, but I wasn't going to be the one to point out a design fault but I think firebird have addressed this issue well which I've loosely detailed in my first post , I've fitted many enviromax boilers and others and only a few have shown to be problematic, I think its a combination of factors between pressurization of chamber and flueing position with prevailing winds disrupting flue flow ie set between two walls or corner.
also the manufacturer's instruction details to set co2 @ 12% imo boilers should be set at 11.5% which will make the difference.

at the end of the day its nothing we cant remedy, I think this aam site is the best tool of all, which we can share experiences of such problems and network together for the cause and not just to show our encyclopedic knowledge of the subject.
  #14  
Old 31-12-2010, 11:33 PM
DGOBS DGOBS is offline
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Esox, I couldn't agree more, sorry didn't cop you were suggesting both oil&air increase

I think its a good boiler, but has to be set very well to site conditions, by design!
I agree whole heartedly with 11.5% co2, 12% set on a sharp day will be like 13-14% on a muggy one! (I see some triancos are now suggesting 13%!!!)
  #15  
Old 12-01-2011, 11:20 AM
Buddyboy Buddyboy is offline
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Just wanted to post in praise of Firebird.

I was having the same problem, (optic sensor sooting up), even after a service (including gas analysis).

Based on the posts here I rang Firebird and enquired about the redisigned flue.

Not only did they confirm about the new flue, the guy on the phone (Michael), who lives in Carrigaline as I do, called out with a replacement flue kit (free of charge), and a plume dispersal kit. The issue was that the flue was in a fairly enclosed side passage so that the gasses were recirculating and being drawn back into the intake. The plume dispersal kit takes the exhaust up to the roof level of the boiler house.

He also spend time going through the kit to ensure I was happy with installing it (which I was).

He only charged me cost for kit (€60 - in fact he didn't have change and left it at €50).

Absolutely top notch service from an Irish company.
  #16  
Old 12-01-2011, 12:59 PM
villa 1 villa 1 is offline
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+1 for Firebird, cork and Grant, offaly. Two great irish companies. All irish suppliers and plumbing/heating contractors should be supporting our own!!
  #17  
Old 12-01-2011, 07:25 PM
DGOBS DGOBS is offline
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+1, our own boilers are the best (check sedbuk.com)
but the recycling of flue gases is not the only issue causing sooting
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