Question on neighbours boundary wall

Hi.

Neighbour 2 doors down has built boundary walls on either side of their driveway inside their own boundary line. As my home is built at an angle in the estate, I am now looking out at their wall from downstairs rather than having a view of the green area to the front of the houses.

My understanding is that these type of walls should not exceed 1.2m. Has anyone any experience of how to deal with this type of situation? Do I have any comeback as my view is obstructed, though not the light orientation.

Thanks.

http://www.enfo.ie/leaflets/PL5%20Doing%20work%20around%20the%20House.pdf

9. Can I erect walls, fences and gates?​

Capped walls made of brick, stone or block with a
decorative finish, railings and wooden fences, but not a
metal palisade or security fences, can be erected as long as
they do not exceed 1.2 metres in height in front of your​

house or 2 metres at the side or rear.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that Tiger. I can say it is over 1.2m. There was no permission sought or notice erected. As the walls are now up, it would be a case of having to lower them.
I am also asking if anyone as a neighbour has gone through the process of appealing a similiar situation to their county planners?
Did it take a long time, and was it successfully appealed?

as it appears that there never was planning permission for said wall, you do not have to appeal. Just ring the council and state case, they will order the wall lowered and the necessary planning or retention be received,

"Neighbour 2 doors down has built boundary walls on either side of their driveway inside their own boundary line."

Just an observation. Afaik the height of the walls rule applies to boundary walls. There may be an escape clause if the walls are in fact built inside their boundary line. Something you might like to ascertain.

Just an observation. Afaik the height of the walls rule applies to boundary walls. There may be an escape clause if the walls are in fact built inside their boundary line. Something you might like to ascertain.

Interesting point Sally. I'll try to find out and post the answer.

It would seem unfair that someone could put up a wall to a height above 1.2m inside their boundary lines without regard to the impact on their next-door neighbour, or indeed houses looking on to it within a few metres, or the surrounding landscape.

Depends on how strict the planning laws are, and whether or not they are; or can be strictly enforced per local county council.

'Just an observation. Afaik the height of the walls rule applies to boundary walls. There may be an escape clause if the walls are in fact built inside their boundary line. Something you might like to ascertain'

Interesting point Sally. I'll try to find out and post the answer.

It would seem unfair that someone could put up a wall to a height above 1.2m inside their boundary lines without regard to the impact on their next-door neighbour, or indeed houses looking on to it within a few metres, or the surrounding landscape.

Depends on how strict the planning laws are, and whether or not they are; or can be strictly enforced per local county council.

Given the difficulty in presenting such cases, from the initial Referral through to the later Observation and possible Appeal, I usually advise people to employ a good architect with experience of making Observations to write their submission, or to employ a competent planning consultant - right from the start.

Thes costs for such Referrals and subsequent Observations and Appeals can vary, but can run from an initial €2,000 or so for a Referral and an Observation to €4,000 if an formal Appeal is lodged - all figures excluding VAT @ 21.5%.

(If you find a competent professional willing to do it for much less, post his/her contacts here - I'll use him/her myself!)

A good submission should contain taped survey information, an ordnance survey plan showing the location of the walling and state the case in terms of planning grounds, not your personal views.

Unless the latter co-incide with the former, you may have little joy.

Even with a good laypersons Referral and subsequent Observation submission [assuming the owner lodges for retention], the planners may grant re.

That's usuall when most people call in the professionals, but calling them in earlier may avoid the later Appeal on your part. Of course, the owner if refused may Appeal and then you'll need the professionals to make your case to the Bórd too, but that's another story.

Here is some relevant information you might wish to consider.

FROM

Column 1
Description of Development

CLASS 5
The construction, erection or alteration, within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway, railing or wooden fence or a wall of brick, stone, blocks with decorative finish, other concrete blocks or mass concrete.

Column 2
Conditions and Limitations

1. The height of any such structure shall not exceed 2 metres or, in the case of a wall or fence within or bounding any garden or other space in front of a house, 1.2 metres.
2. Every wall other than a dry or natural stone wall bounding any garden or other space shall be capped and the face of any wall of concrete or concrete block (other than blocks with decorative finish) which will be visible from any road, path or public area, including public open space, shall be rendered or plastered.
3. No such structure shall be a metal palisade or other security fence.


So, in general, walling in front of a house should be 1200mm or 1.2M high maximum according to these exempted development regulations.

Some caveats:

Some buildings may be listed and cannot avail of the exempted development regulations.

Some buildings may be precluded from having such high walling by Condition of their Planning Permission.

Some regulations have issued since 2001 and you should talk to your local planning officer to confirm that these still apply.

Assuming they do still apply then you have the option of writing to the local authority planning enforcement section telling them the relevant information.

It would help greatly if you measure the height of the wall above the ground in millimetres or metres and show it on a little sketch plan and elevation and include this in your submission.

You should describe the location of the walling and if its in front of their building line you should note that this appears to be the case.

I also respectfull suggest you couch any referral letter in terms like "it would appear that..." and "based on my understanding of the exempted development regulations it seems that..." and on and so forth.

In other words, step back from stating things as fact or demanding the local authority take action.

Instead merely ask them to investigate whether the wall in question complies with the exempted development regulations and request that they take appropriate action.

This keeps you away from the precipice of libel, should such be asserted by any offended parties, and shows proper respect for the role of the local authority in determining the matter and its remedy.

Now, none of this is likely to result in the immediate removal of the wall.

If the local authority decide to send out an Inspector, he will make his report. If the matter requires recitifcation, a Warning Letter may be sent to the owner.

The owner then has the right to seek planning permission to retain the walling.

If you wish to see it removed, you will then need to press your case, and lodge an Observation during the five week period beginning on the date of the application objecting to the walling and stating your reasons in terms of relevant planning grounds for doing this and enclosing your prescribed fee, which as of 13/05/2009 is still €20.

In other words, you cannot merely say "I don't like it" or "Its blocking my view" - you must present your case in development plan terms.

Hope this helps.

Ong that is very helpful information, thank-you for outlining it in such detail. It is good to know the steps involved in the initial referral, observation, and possible appeal. As you say, keeping it professional and not couching it in personal language is important. I am not sure that I could afford go down the road of paying an architect or planning consultant given the fees involved. Wow.
I phoned the planning office in the county council, who advised that one can send in a submission anonymously, with the details of the site, and they will send out an inspector. I was told that this is facilitated so as to avoid a neighbourly spat. While this sounds very straightfoward to make your observation and remain nameless, how effective it would be is questionable.
I guess I will need to make a decision on what to do soon. Food for thought.
Thanks again.

You're very welcome Splash and I'm sure you will get quotes for porfessional advice in the present climate well below what I outlined.

In relation to the referral, you might find you're not as anonymous as you might be led to believe.

You should ask the local authority would they not have to release this information if the other party made a freedom of information request?

In relation to the initial referral, you COULD "ask a fried" to submit the referral on your behalf.

This kind of subterfuge may lead to even more bad feeling if found out, and is open to logical investigation using the "who benefits?" principle.

In other words, never mind their denials, see who benefits from the action - its likely they'll have been involved on the balance of probabilities.

Unless someone else in the estate will benefit from the removal of the wall the finger will point to you!




But realistically, if someone has acted to reduce your amenity and hasn't followed planning law to achieve this, they have thrown the first stone, so to speak and you are entitle to defend the amenity of your property.

That's not to say they might have good reason for a higher wall, i.e. security from passing youths interfering with their cars, gardens et cetera.

It can be hard to strike the right balance.

But if looking at this wall gives a bad impression from the front room of your house, this could affect its saleability if you wish to sell it [20 years from now!].

I think citing a dimunition in value due to loss of visual amenity might be one avenue of approach for you to take in your comments to the local authority.

While you're not "entitle to a view" of the green area per se, neither is your neighbour entitle to reduce the visual amenity of your house.

Also, for older persons [and I'm not making an age-ist remark here] the view from their house of a well-kept public open space can give great visual pleasure.

To take the reductio ad absurdem argument on this issue; -

What would it be like if every front garden had high walls bounding it?
What level of visual amenity would we have in our housing estates?
What would that say about us as a society?
Is that not why we have the 1.2M exempted development limit in the first place?

I think you get my drift...

Hope this helps and good luck with the referral.