Punishing Labour

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chum

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Is it unfair to punish the Labour party for the actions of the present government while at the same time rewarding Fine Gael. They were both instrumental in the success acheived over the last term but Fine Gael seems the only party benefiting and look set to remain in power after the next election. If I were a member of the Labour party I would certainly feel aggrieved, after all taking tough unpopular decisions in order to turn the country around was not easy and then not getting any reward even more frustrating. Maybe Labour voters will reconsider and realize the success the present government has achieved even after so much pain.
 
Many of the people who voted Labour didn't want the hard decisions to be made. They wanted reality to be different. Unfortunately reality isn't different and that's Labour's fault. The same applied to any left of center party which gets into power. The Greens suffered the same fate after being in power with FF even though their ministers generally did a good job.
 
They'll have 2 TDs in the next Dáil so will depend on numbers of FG & Labour.

The smaller party always takes the brunt of abuse even though as the smaller party their policies don't often get as much priority in agreements to Govern. The last election left FG and Labour as the only option, people seem to forget that. Labour ensured that the minimum wage was protected, that social welfare payments were targeted at those seeking to work, not skive and they also ensured that the equality referendum was brought in, all good things.

When the Lib-Dems were punished in the UK the true face of Tory policies was allowed to proceed unchecked. I'm not saying FG are the same but they do have some similar tendencies. They've no chance of getting a majority but if they ended up with a rag-bag of independents I think that would be bad for the country as there could be a dozen "Gregory" deals.

I reckon we'll end up with a FG/Lab/Green/Renua Government!
 
Labour have a core support of about 10%. It is the party of the middle to upper income urban socialist. Their supporters are typically reasonably well educated and liberal and have a fixed/professional income (Solicitors, Architects, public sector employees etc.) who have a good income, little contact with poor people and feel middle-class guild. Ruairi Quinn articulated that profile quite well in a radio interview a few years back.

Anything above that 10% support is just the result of a protest vote. The problem they now face is that they are in government and so have to go into an election having been tarnished by reality for the last 5 years and there are now lots of independents and parties on the loony-left who will attract the vote of those who think that wishing the world was different will make it so.
 
I spoke to a friend of mine the other night. She said that anything over 8 hours was a punishing labour.



She's not really into politics.
 
chum said:
Is it unfair to punish the Labour party for the actions of the present government while at the same time rewarding Fine Gael. They were both instrumental in the success acheived over the last term but Fine Gael seems the only party benefiting and look set to remain in power after the next election. If I were a member of the Labour party I would certainly feel aggrieved, after all taking tough unpopular decisions in order to turn the country around was not easy and then not getting any reward even more frustrating. Maybe Labour voters will reconsider and realize the success the present government has achieved even after so much pain.
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The problem for labour is that they made to many promises they either couldn't or wouldn't keep. they sold out their principles for a shot at the limelight, which makes the people you lied to very angry, that's why they are getting punished.
 
blueband said:
The problem for labour is that they made to many promises they either couldn't or wouldn't keep. they sold out their principles for a shot at the limelight, which makes the people you lied to very angry, that's why they are getting punished.
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But they weren't the bigger party! How difficult is it for people to understand that? What's the point in being in politics if you don't get into Government?
 
blueband said:
The problem for labour is that they made to many promises they either couldn't or wouldn't keep. they sold out their principles for a shot at the limelight, which makes the people you lied to very angry, that's why they are getting punished.
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I think that's very unfair. I would never vote Labour but the reality of politics is there for all to see. Every party has to work within that reality. Punishing them because of that is nonsensical.
 
I think I'm going to vote Labour this time simply as I see them conforming to the middle as they have done for the past 5 years and FG are going to get in anyway. They, IMO, are the lowest risk to the economy compared to the others on the looney left.
 
Has the electorate lost its appetite for protest votes. Voting for candidates who are guaranteed to spend their entire political careers in opposition seems a waste. Illuminating the Dail with the obvious faults present in the economy without ever having the power to exact change seems to me like a charade.What is the attraction for left leaning independent candidates to run outside a party structure like the Labour party. I can't imagine spending 20 years as a Dail deputy in opposition with my moral outrage intact but not much else to show for.
 
chum said:
Has the electorate lost its appetite for protest votes. Voting for candidates who are guaranteed to spend their entire political careers in opposition seems a waste. Illuminating the Dail with the obvious faults present in the economy without ever having the power to exact change seems to me like a charade.What is the attraction for left leaning independent candidates to run outside a party structure like the Labour party. I can't imagine spending 20 years as a Dail deputy in opposition with my moral outrage intact but not much else to show for.
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People on the far left tend to lose their seats after being in office. Therefore they stay away from that sort of thing. I'm sure the same would be the case if we has any far right TD's but thankfully we don't; the nutters on the left are quite enough.
 
People remember the "Every Little Hurts" Labour posters before the last election. Ruairi Quinn also gave commitments with regards to 3rd level capitation fees. They also made false promises on burning bonds.

Pat Rabbitt made some comments on election promises.

Many Labour TDs didn't even bother to turn up for the debates on Vincent Browne.

I think that they are in danger of being gobbled by other left or "Left" partys.
 
cork said:
People remember the "Every Little Hurts" Labour posters before the last election. Ruairi Quinn also gave commitments with regards to 3rd level capitation fees. They also made false promises on burning bonds.

Pat Rabbitt made some comments on election promises.

Many Labour TDs didn't even bother to turn up for the debates on Vincent Browne.

I think that they are in danger of being gobbled by other left or "Left" partys.
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Not talking to Vincent Browne is a positive in my book. He's like one of those nutters who sits beside you on the bus. There's not an ounce of credibility or balance in the man.
You are an FF supporter and that's fine but as such isn't it a bit rich to give out about empty/broken promises?
I agree that Labour could be hit hard by the looney left. Having been in power they have been tarnished by reality, never a good thing for a Left wing party.
 
The apparently permanent political legacy of the crisis is the decimation of the FF vote. It was a whopping 24% down in 2011. Today that still stands at 20%. Who benefitted in 2011? Well top share-out of 9.2% went to Labour, 8.8% went to FG, 3% went to SF and 3% to Inds. Today that share-out looks a lot like this: 5% to FG, 12% to SF, 3% to Inds and 0% to Labour. And to my mind this is much more natural divvie up of a FF collapse.

The real question is why did Labour get such an unnatural share in 2011. Well they were the constitutional Anti Austerity party. The Tesco ad and what Gilmore wasn't going to do when let loose in Frankfurt. So it is not so much that Labour are being punished it is simply that they are giving up a wholly unnatural share of the FF spoils and are back to as they were. In one sense the losers are FG who are predicted to lose 16 seats and give back 4% of that share of the FF spoils.
 
Am considering giving Labour a high preference as a "reward" for staying the course. Have never voted for them before. Am happy with FG and the continuation of the current arrangement would be ideal. I couldnt vote for FF for time being at least. I think I could suffer them being the junior part to FG but not vice versa (I wretched when Niall Collins said he could only consider it if FF the bigger party.... unfounded arrogance sprang to mind). Am afraid the Looney Left are eating Labours lunch (or the curry chips portion of it at least) & I accept they got a protest bounce last time (as they did before). Anyone voting looney left is either a) wishing things were different or b) has no skin in the game - i.e. they're already getting everything laid on for them and whoever promises most gravy for nothing will get the vote.

I understand we're in the throes of election promises and auction politics, but I hope when the inevitable coalition comes about they calm down on cut tax spend spend agenda - this is as someone who's paying a lot of tax, but I'd rather keep it steady as we go (even if it costs me) rather than widly swinging from extreme to extreme - ..... 'have we learned nothing' type of idea.
 
Betsy Og said:
I understand we're in the throes of election promises and auction politics, but I hope when the inevitable coalition comes about they calm down on cut tax spend spend agenda - this is as someone who's paying a lot of tax, but I'd rather keep it steady as we go (even if it costs me) rather than widly swinging from extreme to extreme - ..... 'have we learned nothing' type of idea.
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I think that decision will be made for them externally. Things are really looking shaky in the Global Economy.
All the major News channels/programmes have had features this week on the possible storms that seem to be coming. I have a feeling the 1st thing the new Govt will be telling us in March is that 'things have changed due to circumstances outside our control'
 
I work as a low level public servant and am in touch with many of my kind every day (most of whom are female). From conversations I hear at every break the knives are out to kill Labour. Haddington Road, Croke Park etc are four letter words in the public service especially amongst the footsoldiers. I'm with Betsy Óg and we all took some bad hits but Ireland Ltd has to start from somewhere. I will be voting Labour and using the Single Transfer Vote to do as much harm as I can to Fianna Fáil, the people credited with getting us into the mess. My family are traditional FF supporters and would even vote for Michéal Martin given the chance. So, this time round, I will be voting pro existing government, but in the order of my choice.
 
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