Tv3 debate - Leaders debate

Enda Kenny and Gerry Adams not sounding like leaders and it's only 9 mins gone ! Enda couldn't even talk for 1 minute without looking at his notes. Not good. Pity ...

A non event as far as all the party leaders were concerned, but again Pat Kenny would like to give the impression that he's the most important person in all of this. Bad enough that his false information cost one person the job when Michael D became President. Anyway, that's my opinion of tonight's "arguing".

I watched the debate. It was goddawful with the constant interruptions, talking over each other and downright bad television. I reckon the lot including the presenters did everything possible to turn people off the election.

Joan did Labour no favours - really exposed how desperate they are to stick with FG. Having said that, she threw an olive brach to MM regarding the smoking ban but he quickly threw it back at her (which I think was a mistake by MM).

Firstly it reinforced my long standing belief that Pat Kenny is a bloody awful presenter and how he ever ended up where he did is beyond me

MM was the most impressive ( or the least unimpressive if that makes sense). Enda looked out of his depth. Joan is desperate and don't get me started on Adams. Frankly if my staff behaved like that in a customer facing meeting I'd be sacking the whole lot of them

Such debates are very difficult to be fair to them.

On the few occasions where I have been in arguments with a panel on the Radio, I have tried not to speak while the other person was speaking no matter what rubbish they were speaking. I would let the presenter know that I wanted to speak.

I have also found that when I spoke, the others cut in constantly trying to contradict me or knock my train of thought.

People have told me that I was not forceful enough. It's very hard to get it right.

I only watched bits of it. An impossible job for Pat Kenny managing 4 unruly and disobedient children, but he did his best. They should have had a facility to cut the microphone. Enda Kenny looked stupid when he kept repeating figures while Micheál Martin was speaking.

Wait until Monday when there are 7 leaders in the RTE debate.

Brendan

An impossible job for Pat Kenny? If that's the case then it's a good job he doesn't have to look for a job in the real world. That was his only task last night and he proved once again that he couldn't do it and, that fact ruined the debate as much as anything else.

Folks , The Children prattled on last night , wait until the magnificent 7 get loose on the next debate.!

The markers were set last night , so role on the 3rd debate , I will give you odds they will be more mannerly.
I would expect on 3rd debate that presenters will wield a heavier hand !
....................
On the (debate)
Kenny won by it being a rabble house debate,
Martin on going after health has now left himself open to his past ,since he was health minister.
Joan was forced into being Kennys side kick.
Adams has lost more transfers.
The Presenters were too weak.

I think ppl are being unfair to Pat Kenny, these were experienced hecklers, interjectors and very rude ppl. Perhaps each should not have been allowed to interject and mikes switched off as each person had their turn to make or answer a point.

TV3 allowed interjection to "inject" drama into the proceedings and ended up with an "argument in a pub".

Burton is desperate, Kenny was sure footed and no mistakes, MM was the best performer (too bad he was a senior minister in the Gov that destroyed the country, still he will have Hanafin and Haughey back on the team shortly).
GA needed to retire............he was a disaster on the Crime discussion.

Did nobody find E Kenny's habit of rabitting on with irrelevant data when others were speaking. Very childish? Same strategy when he doesn't want to answer a question. "let me make myself clear"!!!!!! Yap- Yap - Yap. Is it not time for politicians to stop acting like children in these debates and answer questions honestly. We all know mistakes were made and will be made by all parties. promises were also made in electioneering that could not be delivered.
I would have far more respect for a politician who admits that some mistakes were made and honestly set out why it was not possible to deliver on election promises than one who blusters and avoids questions. One thing I admire about Leo Varadeker is that he will answer a question without resorting to bluster. None of the 4 leaders last night were prepared to take this approach.

Perhaps we would have more respect for our politicians if they realize that most of us are reasonably intelligent and not can see through all the bull and bluster.

44brendan said:

Did nobody find E Kenny's habit of rabitting on with irrelevant data when others were speaking. Very childish?

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I had referred to it here:

Brendan Burgess said:

Enda Kenny looked stupid when he kept repeating figures while Micheál Martin was speaking.

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44brendan said:

Did nobody find E Kenny's habit of rabitting on with irrelevant data when others were speaking. Very childish? Same strategy when he doesn't want to answer a question. "let me make myself clear"!!!!!! Yap- Yap - Yap. Is it not time for politicians to stop acting like children in these debates and answer questions honestly. We all know mistakes were made and will be made by all parties. promises were also made in electioneering that could not be delivered.
I would have far more respect for a politician who admits that some mistakes were made and honestly set out why it was not possible to deliver on election promises than one who blusters and avoids questions. One thing I admire about Leo Varadeker is that he will answer a question without resorting to bluster. None of the 4 leaders last night were prepared to take this approach.

Perhaps we would have more respect for our politicians if they realize that most of us are reasonably intelligent and not can see through all the bull and bluster.

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All I see are politicians that are so closely handled and advised that it just sounds ridiculous when they spout the same rubbish all the time. Especially Enda Kenny. I know people that have met him and have said he is very engaging but I just can't take the guy seriously when he speaks to the media. I do want to know who advised him to keep going on about FF and the past. It was annoying and offered nothing to the debate. Also, it is so obvious with FG that they have 'key' messages to get across. Someone should really tell them that everyone repeating the same thing every five minutes is just annoying. People who tuned in last night to watch this aren't stupid people. They want to hear proper debate about the issues but they didn't get it.

As for the others: Martin was very polished. Thought he did well and his dealing with Gerry Adams on crime was excellent. Joan Burton was average. Thought she seemed a bit lost at times and her voice got high pitched on a number of occasions which irritates. Gerry Adams is a plain liability for SF at this stage. Can't see McDonald and Doherty haven't launched a heave. Suppose they are probably afraid to!

This debate convinced me that the most likely outcome to this election is that Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael will be in a coalition government together, post election. The only thing to play for now is the power ranking ie which of the two parties will be the dominant one in that "cooperation". As much as I hate to believe this, I think Fianna Fail will poll much much better than current opinion polls indicate. The three other parties in their lack of performance and ability are holding the door wide open for Fianna Fail. I hope Joan Burton has a plan b in place for her future career.

I have nothing against Joan Burton or Labour but they have now moved themselves so much towards the centre that they are effectively FG or FF light! I.e. Joan failed to convince anyone last night that she promoting Labour on its own merits rather than as an offshoot of FG.
Realistically the numbers game now indicates that the only realistic option is as you say a FF/FG coalition. The difficulty with this is that with Enda as Taoiseach it will be a death knell for Micheal unless he can play a blinder in the negotiations on including some of the party's core issues as a perquisite to power sharing.
Labour will need to re-invent itself again as a Left party and this could mean a similar bloodletting as has happened in the UK.

44brendan said:

they have now moved themselves so much towards the centre that they are effectively FG or FF light!

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That is a joke I presume?

FF and FG have moved so far to the left that there is no right wing party anymore!

Some of the highest social welfare rates in the OECD. An effective ban on repossessions of people who don't pay their mortgages. A huge number of people paying no taxes at all on income. Increased CGT and CAT. Property taxes.

They are all socialists.

Brendan

I think both Brendans are right. Both FG and FF seem to have moved left of centre in recent years and labour has moved to the right. These three parties are now occupying the same political space , slightly left of centre. Of course there is no surprise why this is the case. The three parties are now slightly left of centre as that is where the main electoral vote is. On the liberal / conservative axis, id say the main voting block is leaning slightly conservative. Of the three parties, it seems Fianna Fail has done the least amount of movement

Brendan Burgess said:

FF and FG have moved so far to the left that there is no right wing party anymore!

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What about Reanua? Are they not trying to occupy the space previously left vacant by the departure of the PD's.
Perhaps you are right in that we are becoming more Berlin than Boston in our political beliefs but yet I can see no signs of any high levels of support for either Reanua or a predominately right wing party.
I see from today's papers that Eddie Hobbs is disappointed in us

Renua are disappointing. When they are interviewed about the flat tax and challenged that it will mean the lower paid actually paying some tax, they say "No, we will give them a complicated minimum income scheme to make sure that they wont' pay any tax"

Of all parties, they should simply have said "Yes, we believe that citizens should pay tax. "

44brendan said:

I see from today's papers that Eddie Hobbs is disappointed in us

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I had wondered where he was.

"Economist Eddie Hobbs has warned that if reform parties such as Renua are wiped out in the election, it will mean that voters are content with sending "the village idiot" back to the Dáil.
...

He said Ireland now had an historic chance to move away from the discredited system of clientism, where some TDs behave like "sexed-up county councillors" to look after their own voters."

I sense that there is no real right wing vote in this country worth talking about. Of course there are a few pockets of right wingers here and there but clearly not many. This is very different from the situation in the UK and the USA.