Bankruptcy term reduced to 1 year - IPO for 3 years?

I'm confused.
I think it's clear anyone currently bankrupt has to serve 18 months.
However, if someone has completed 18 months how long before they are discharged?
Immediate, 3 months or 6 months?

It'll be interesting to get a look at the bill. Can't understand the reasoning behind the 18 months discharge for current bankrupts, it's paticularity nasty for anybody who was adjudicated bankrupt yesterday. Hope the media reports are wrong. There's some other areas I'm not entirely happy with if the reports are true [broken link removed]
 
It'll be interesting to get a look at the bill. Can't understand the reasoning behind the 18 months discharge for current bankrupts, it's paticularity nasty for anybody who was adjudicated bankrupt yesterday. Hope the media reports are wrong. There's some other areas I'm not entirely happy with if the reports are true [broken link removed]

Or tomorrow, this law will only have effect, when the current bill passes through the two houses of the Oirechtas and is passed into law by the appropriate minister. ( hopefully some time before Christmas .)
 
It'll be interesting to get a look at the bill. Can't understand the reasoning behind the 18 months discharge for current bankrupts, it's paticularity nasty for anybody who was adjudicated bankrupt yesterday. Hope the media reports are wrong. There's some other areas I'm not entirely happy with if the reports are true [broken link removed]

Pat,

Very disappointing this hasn't been qualified.
I've completed 18 months but now don't know if I will be discharged immediately it becomes law, 3 months after this (Penrose original bill) or 6 months after it.

I am assuming the 18 months was on request from ISI so they don't have a slew of discharges to handle all at once and can stagger the process.
 
Pat,

Very disappointing this hasn't been qualified.
I've completed 18 months but now don't know if I will be discharged immediately it becomes law, 3 months after this (Penrose original bill) or 6 months after it.

I am assuming the 18 months was on request from ISI so they don't have a slew of discharges to handle all at once and can stagger the process.

The picture is very confusing

IT says AG has been asked to provide that there be a six-month period of transition for people already in the bankruptcy process. This should mean that people already in the system will be facing an 18-month term

Examiner says It is now unclear as to what will happen to those who are already bankrupt should the bill be passed however, it is understood that those who have been so for one year could be cleared after three months.

At least all reports pointing to it being enacted pre Xmas.

The 6 month transition is just daft and will create an administrative nightmare
Assuming say it's law on Dec 20th
Every single person adjudicated bankrupt between May 20th 2013 and Dec 2014 will have to be discharged on same date.
Daft
 
[QUOTE=" Every single person adjudicated bankrupt between May 20th 2013 and Dec 2014 will have to be discharged on same date. Daft[/QUOTE]
But we're very good at 'Daft' in Ireland at times. Hopefully, once clarified, this won't be another example of it.
 
I have a real fear of the following creeping into the imminent legislation.
18 months for existing bankrupts and a further 6 months transition.
Reports are quoting both but my fear is they are not mutually exclusive and existing bankrupts may in fact be facing 24 months which would be shockingly unfair.

Can everyone affected contact a rep asap to seek clarification?
 
I have a real fear of the following creeping into the imminent legislation.
18 months for existing bankrupts and a further 6 months transition.
Reports are quoting both but my fear is they are not mutually exclusive and existing bankrupts may in fact be facing 24 months which would be shockingly unfair.

Can everyone affected contact a rep asap to seek clarification?
I haven't seen anything in the media however I'm sure I heard Ivan Yates state that Willie Penrose's bill was enacted yesterday.
 
I haven't seen anything in the media however I'm sure I heard Ivan Yates state that Willie Penrose's bill was enacted yesterday.

The Cabinet approved the bill on Wed to ensure it becomes law by Christmas.
It will be heard in the Dail next Tuesday.

There is still uncertainty regarding existing bankrupts.
It appears unfortunately as if there is definitely a "transitional period" included of 6 months and not the 3 months in Penrose bill.
However a 18 mths period to qualify has been mooted in many reports.

If the 18 months is mandatory and then subject to another 6 months transition then existing bankrupts would serve a minimum of 24 months, very unfair.
In the most bizarre scenario, someone who has served 2 years and 11 months would now serve 3 years and 5 months. Crazy

Can anyone find a copy of the new bill?
I've emailed two TDs this morning asking for a copy, it will be circulated to all Oireachtas members.

The 1 year bankruptcy is now a done deal but a minor change can still be made if it is raised in Dail or Seanad next week during reading.

I've also heard nothing on the payment orders but it would be dangerous to assume it might not have been tinkered with also.

If anyone gets a copy, please post.

Thanks
 
btw
This was the same Yates who told Willie Penrose on air 3 weeks ago no way would the bill see light during current Dail.
 
Seems straightforward enough. It's an awful pity that it's a 6 month transition but thankfully it's not stuck on the end on the 12 month term.

My understanding of it is this (assuming it's commenced on the 01/01/2016 for example):

1.Any bankrupt due (under the old system) to be discharged, in the 6 months after the bill becomes operative, will be discharged on the same date. This Bill will have no effect on them.

2.Any bankrupt declared bankrupt after the 01/07/2015 will be discharged on the first anniversary.

3.Any bankrupt declared bankrupt after 01/07/2013 up till 30/06/2015 will be discharged on the 01/07/2015.

In my own case, I was adjudicated a bankrupt on the 20/04/2015. Therefore, I will have to wait 6 months from the Bill commencement to be discharged; ie 01/07/2016

Please let me know if I've went wrong anywhere
 
I was adjudicated bankrupt in April 2014 and according to my advisor - anybody who has served min 18 months when the Bill is passed, will be automatically discharged. I am hoping he is right but I am still doubtful (He has been wrong in the past)
 
I was adjudicated bankrupt in April 2014 and according to my advisor - anybody who has served min 18 months when the Bill is passed, will be automatically discharged. I am hoping he is right but I am still doubtful (He has been wrong in the past)

Hi Ciara,

Alas, I fear he is not right and you will not be discharged until 6 months from date of passing of legislation.
There seems to be 100% agreement that will happen this week so you should be discharged mid June 2016.

The 6 month period in the legislation is referred to as a transitional period which would give some hope that the period will be used to discharge those over 12 or possibly 18 months in an orderly fashion during the 6 months but I wouldn't bank on it.
Converging 2 years of bankrupts (approx 1000) on one set date 6 months from now looks like a big ask.

Have the ISI given assurances they can handle this?
 
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According to Radio Nova's 4.00pm news bulletin the Dail has passed the legislation and it has gone to the Seanad.
 
Thanks Silvio - looks like you are right. Found the following - taken from Francis Fitzgeralds Bankruptcy (Amendment) Bill 2015: Second Stage:

Any bankruptcy already existing when the Bill comes into effect will also benefit from the changes introduced by this Bill subject to a six-month transitional period. This reflects the six month transition period provided previously when the bankruptcy term was reduced from 12 years to three years by the Personal Insolvency Act 2012. It is needed to ensure sufficient time is available to ensure a smooth transition and to make any necessary applications to court for extension of time in cases which raise possible issues of non-cooperation or attempted concealment.

Under the transitional provisions, and assuming that there are no grounds for extension, an existing bankruptcy, which was due to terminate three years after adjudication, if it is already due to terminate less than six months after the commencement date will terminate on its due date, otherwise it will now terminate one year after adjudication or six months after commencement if that is the later date; an existing bankruptcy payment order which was due to expire five years after it was made by the court, if it is already due to expire less than six months after the commencement date will terminate on its due date, otherwise it will now expire three years after it was made or six months after commencement if that is a later date.
 
A very big hand to Senator Averil Power who was kind enough during today's debate on the bill in the Seanad on request from Stuboy and me to seek clarification of the "transitional period" and to raise concerns if "1000 bankrupts" had to be discharged on a single date.
Aodhan O' Riordain who was in the Seanad on behalf of the bill in reply seemed to indicate the process would be a staggered one but I'd have to see the transcript later to be sure.
If so, the period for those who have completed 18 months is a max of 6 more months and not an automatic 6 more months.
 
Bankruptcy (Amendment) Bill 2015: Committee and Remaining Stages

Sections 1 to 3, inclusive, agreed to.

Question proposed: "That section 4 stand part of the Bill."

Senator Averil Power:http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=24&MemberID=2351http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...351&pid=AverilPower&year=2015&month=12&day=17 I noted the Minister of State's response on the transitional periods but I am no more enlightened than was the case when I asked the question. He stated he is satisfied that the transitional period will work smoothly. The specific question I asked relates to the approximately 1,000 people who have already been in bankruptcy from more than 12 months. As I understand it, they will become eligible to be discharged six months after the Bill comes into force. Will they all become eligible on that date and will the Insolvency Service of Ireland then be obliged to work through each of the individual cases and be satisfied that the bankruptcy is appropriate and that they should not be extended to a longer time limit or will it start working immediately after the Bill is passed and use that six-month period to deal with people, in chronological order perhaps, starting with those who have been in the process the longest and start letting people go on a week by week basis rather than ensuring that all cases fall due on the same date?

Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality (Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin):http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=0&HouseNum=31&MemberID=2301http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...&pid=AodhanORiordan&year=2015&month=12&day=17 Not everybody will be eligible on the same day. They will be dealt with on a staggered basis.

Senator Averil Power:http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=24&MemberID=2351http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...351&pid=AverilPower&year=2015&month=12&day=17 They will have to wait for six months. Will the six months be used to release people now from bankruptcy or will they all have to wait six months before the process starts?

Senator Aideen Hayden:http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=24&MemberID=2384http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...84&pid=AideenHayden&year=2015&month=12&day=17 I have a question on the same point. It is my understanding, and perhaps the Minister will put me right on this, that the purpose of the six months was to allow the official assignee to determine whether there was, in fact, any reason the bankruptcy term should be extended, in other words whether there was any hiding of assets or fraud. My understanding of the six-month period is that it will simply be to allow the assignee to determine whether the bankrupt should be discharged.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin:http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=0&HouseNum=31&MemberID=2301http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...&pid=AodhanORiordan&year=2015&month=12&day=17 I reiterate the point that under the transitional provisions, assuming there are no grounds for extension an existing bankruptcy which was due to terminate three years after adjudication, if it is already due to terminate less than six months after the commencement date, will terminate on its due date. Otherwise, it will terminate one year after adjudication or six months after commencement if that is the later date.

Senator Averil Power:http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=24&MemberID=2351http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...351&pid=AverilPower&year=2015&month=12&day=17 Will the Minister of State to confirm, as Senator Hayden outlined, that the six months will be used to go through the files so the body of work has been done during the transitional period? Will the six months being used for this purpose, so that in six months time some people will be let go on day one, day two and day three? With respect, it has taken a lot of tick-tacking between the Minister of State and the officials for him to understand the position.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin:http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=0&HouseNum=31&MemberID=2301http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...&pid=AodhanORiordan&year=2015&month=12&day=17 No problem.

Senator Averil Power:http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=24&MemberID=2351http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...351&pid=AverilPower&year=2015&month=12&day=17 I am just seeking clarity.

Question put and agreed to.
 
The above would give hope that the transitional period will be used to funnel people out in an orderly fashion (presumably chronological).
Deputy O'Riordain confirmed the releases would be done on a staggered basis rather than converging them on a single date.
Surely sensible.
 
Stu,

Frances Fitzgerald has to sign a commencement order and that is the relevant date.
No earthly reason why she should sit on it at this stage but I'd assume she wont sign till early in new year.
 
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