Valuer overvalued the house in 2006. Do I have any comeback now?

Thanks for that. Its clear that this case is very unusual, and the bank did not carry out due diligence and have questions to answer in relation to their valuer. Maybe thats at least partly why the bank have offered her a deal / a large reduction on the balance owed provided she signs a non disclosure document. Hence neither she or I are going to divulge details of the location, name of bank, amount of loan or write-down etc as someone may identify her.

Josephine,
in fairness its only taken you 11 posts to let people know that theres a bit more to the story - these are the same people who were trying to give you some free advice. You wont be wasting anymore of my time anyway.
 
DannyBoy, I actually answered every single question / point you raised, and corrected you on assertions you made which were false. I also asked you a question "Should the bank not have indicated likely monthly capital and interest repayments?" and you did not reply. The majority of mortgage brokers and valuers and bankers we assume are honest and done things properly, indeed my sisters own bank refused to lend her money for the property at the time, which was quite correct. It appears a small amount of professionals in the banking / valuation fields may have cut corners / acted improperly in the boom, just as a minority of other professionals (e.g. surveyors / developers/ architects / fire engineers etc) may have done. Thank you to all who have answered. We were interested in seeing if anyone else had come across a valuer who added an extra four bedrooms etc or who made a dodgy valuation. While my sister has lost a lot,we wondered if the problem she had with her valuation and mortgage was a common one, if the bank should have checked her repayment ability and if banks have taken steps to avoid it happening to others. If lessons are not learned then history can repeat itself.
 
josephine said:
Maybe thats at least partly why the bank have offered her a deal / a large reduction on the balance owed provided she signs a non disclosure document. Hence neither she or I are going to divulge details of the location, name of bank, amount of loan or write-down etc as someone may identify her.
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I reckon you really need to get yourself a very good solicitor.
 
The loan offer would usually show what the payments would be on capital and interest, there is a load of stuff that comes out with a loan offer, including a valuation, and I would say most people read none of it.

In many years of dealing with mortgages I never saw a valuer mess with the number of rooms/description etc as you describe. The mortgage forms I dealt with also had these questions on the form, number of bedrooms/living/bathrooms etc. If again your sister did not fill this herself and then did not read what she signed when signing the application form it is most unfortunate.

Even when dealing with 'experts' customers need to educate themselves with some small amount of knowledge at least no matter what area of life you talking about.
 
How did your sister plan to repay the loan from renting out a two bedroomed house with no central heating or double glazing?
As Brendan asked why did she pay the price for her house when she could have purchased a 6 bedroomed house in the same area for the same price?
 
Monbretia said:
The loan offer would usually show what the payments would be on capital and interest, there is a load of stuff that comes out with a loan offer, including a valuation, and I would say most people read none of it.
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The loan offer did not include a valuation or indicate what the monthly repayments were likely to be once the interest only period was up. If it did, the borrower would likely have run a mile as she would then have realised what her future monthly (or yearly) commitments would be. Should a bank indicate what the monthly mortgage payments were going to be once the interest only period is up? The bank does not dispute it did not supply the valuation at the time, or the likely monthly capital and interest repayments.

Grizzly said:
How did your sister plan to repay the loan from renting out a two bedroomed house with no central heating or double glazing?
As Brendan asked why did she pay the price for her house when she could have purchased a 6 bedroomed house in the same area for the same price?
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Answered in post no 17. She should have thought about how much rent etc it would generate and got independent advice on that instead of trusting the estate agent / broker. And the bank should have asked how the loan was going to be repaid instead of relying on the brokers own handwriting on the buy to let mortgage application form that the loan was going to be repaid by the rent. No calculations were sought or furnished. If the bank dealt direct instead of using that broker, whom it no longer uses, or if it had used a different valuer, the loan would not have been approved.
 
Does the mortgage application form state there are six bedrooms which will rented & give a rental value? Who filled in & signed the mortgage application?

Your sister made a bad investment & regardless of the valuation she signed up for this without proper investigation. Why on earth would she buy a 2-bed cottage for the equivalent price of large six-bed modernised houses in the area?

If she has a settlement from the bank they must have acknowledged some fault? Why would risk the non-disclosure agreement by asking for advice here? Surely a solicitor has been consulted?
 
Josephine you are giving out to people for not answering your questions. Yet you have dodged several questions asked of you.
It seems your sister was watching one too many of Kirsty & Phil, Sarah Beeny and other similar TV programmes. These all tell you to purchase the worse house on the street, do it up and add value to it. Unfortunately your sister missed the key point. You have to purchase the house at rock bottom value, not pay the same price for it as the others that have already been improved on the street.
Regarding the extra valuation that a friend of a friend of a friend got etc. It seems to me that your sister never really expected to pay back the loan. (Can she do simple maths herself or was she relying on the local taxi driver to do them). It looks as if she hoped to flip it within a very short period of time. Maybe her breadman told her that they were going to build a shopping centre on the site?
She seems to be incredibly stupid in some ways but is cute enough to know exactly what she is doing. With a sister like you who can talk the talk, did she never discuss the purchase with you?
I would imagine that your sister can get on with the normal things in life such as paying her utility bills, arrange health insurance, deal with car tax, NCT, car insurance, TV & internet yet she didn't think to ask "What will my repayments be when the interest only period is up?".
As I said the plan all along was to flip it but the bottom fell out of the market and she got caught.
 
So having already been refused by her own bank, did she not stop and think why she was refused? Did that bank not give her, in writing, a reason for the refusal?
And then she went straight to another mortgage broker to try and buy something that she'd been told she couldn't afford, and at no time did she stop and think this might not be a great idea? Where were you when all this was going on?
 
Butter said:
Does the mortgage application form state there are six bedrooms which will rented & give a rental value? Who filled in & signed the mortgage application?
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There is no mention of the number of bedrooms on the mortgage application form. My sister got a copy of all documentation from the bank for (I think she said) 6 or 7 euro. Parts of the buy to let mortgage application form are left blank. The broker filled it in and my sister signed it.

Laramie said:
With a sister like you who can talk the talk, did she never discuss the purchase with you?
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To answer your question, no, she did not discuss it with me in any detail at the time as I was overseas.

Laramie said:
yet she didn't think to ask "What will my repayments be when the interest only period is up?".
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As said before, she did actually, but she was fobbed off, and just told by the broker that the financial experts had gone through the figures and that she could afford it, otherwise they would not lend her the money. She asked again and was told it would depend on interest rates etc and nobody could predict what exactly the repayments would be, but the broker/estate agent said the rent would cover it. Why did the bank not tell her what the monthly or yearly repayments would be when the interest only period is up? Its not on the loan agreement. Should they not have seen the figures did not stack up?


dereko1969 said:
Did that bank not give her, in writing, a reason for the refusal?
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No they did not. I do not think they have to. I would be more concerned about what went on in the other lending institution.
 
josephine said:
To answer your question, no, she did not discuss it with me in any detail at the time as I was overseas.

.
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This happened to me with a sibling, (not exactly the same issue - a personal guarantee instead) and when I arrived back one Christmas, years after the event, I was asked what I was going to do about it !

If your sister is in negotations it's clear the bank has something to answer for and coincidentally I have another sibling whose bank's solicitors have offered to 'settle' and I'll give you the same advice I gave which is being ignored, get a professional, I advised Padraic Kissane to the sibling and contact was made (sibling has been on here and knows I comment here etc) but he's very busy with enough on his plate and sure they've got this far and why would they need professionals now. (been in court many times)

The case also involves signing of a non disclosure. (so far offered all debt written off and mortgage and property gone - but this is not acceptable to sibling !)
 
Bronte said:
e - but this is not acceptable to sibling !)
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Not taking from the thread in question Bronte but what does your sibling want out of this.

As an after thought God only knows the shenanigans that went on over the tiger years. All coming home to roost a is evident in this thread.
 
moneybox said:
Not taking from the thread in question Bronte but what does your sibling want out of this.

As an after thought God only knows the shenanigans that went on over the tiger years. All coming home to roost a is evident in this thread.
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Want's more, I need to be vague, to compensate for .... and might not be in situation due to confirmed overcharging, and tried to come to an arrangement before the mess with the intererest rate being too high and now turns out to be overcharging so mess need never have got to this stage etc. And has loads of 'shenanigans' going on too. Which I presume is why the bank is now 'settling'. I'm amazed at the audacity of the sibling's request, but this has been a long long road and very very vexed with banks. Separately OH was with another bank 'forced' into converting business loan into personal loan or overdraft used to pay salaries would be pulled, bank calling to house pretending to be kind but really uselsss and also checking out to see if wealthy and these minions having no power to do anything.....

This is a couple willing to fight back on their own, experts on High court, procedures, affidavids, you name it they know it, and on first name terms with other side's legal teams. And also experts on judges too !
 
Bronte said:
This is a couple willing to fight back on their own, experts on High court, procedures, affidavids, you name it they know it, and on first name terms with other side's legal teams. And also experts on judges too !
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Sounds great, hope they get on just fine and all will come to a successful conclusion.;)
 
With Moneybox on {chickens coming home to roost} .

Customers may well have been naiive and greedily stupid but they were not the Professionals.Consumers should be able to trust Professionals .
We spend time on CPD (continuous development courses) + Our supposed Regulators ?? ensure everyone has professional qualifications ostensibly to keep out incompetency ?

I find it amazing that these Professionals have sometimes not been jailed ?

Professionals should never be (fleece the customer merchants) yet in the (fluffy) times too many were and I fear more regulation without real teeth means we will continue to let chancers hide under (professional) label..
 
moneybox said:
Sounds great, hope they get on just fine and all will come to a successful conclusion.;)
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The whole thing is so crackers you wouldn't believe it, and no mortgages being paid for a few years now, and they ran the receivers on one property and prevented them getting to a tenant on the other. They threatened the locksmith (quoted law at him) and he refused to ever go out for the receiver again, and the price the receiver was charging was unbelievable too. They've now asked the settlment bank for an astronomical sum in compensation (6 figures, I nearly fainted myself), it's like an eposide of Dallas to me. One of the well known top solicitors firms are handling it for the bank and the property worth less than the mortgage.
 
Did the rent cover the interest on the mortgage. Thinking may have been that rent covers the interest, when interest only period is up, sell the property and repay capital. Would be profitable when prices were only going up and bank would lend on this basis. Did the bank have a solicitor involved in the purchase? I thought for buy to lets banks would have a solicitor too.
 
Bronte said:
The whole thing is so crackers you wouldn't believe it, and no mortgages being paid for a few years now, and they ran the receivers on one property and prevented them getting to a tenant on the other. They threatened the locksmith (quoted law at him) and he refused to ever go out for the receiver again, and the price the receiver was charging was unbelievable too. They've now asked the settlment bank for an astronomical sum in compensation (6 figures, I nearly fainted myself), it's like an eposide of Dallas to me. One of the well known top solicitors firms are handling it for the bank and the property worth less than the mortgage.
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