BoSI may have a problem enforcing its mortgages

Advice,

Just to be clear .... they are changing each charge on each folio from BOSI to BOS. One folio I am aware of was changed in the last few days.

Justcurious said:

Advice,

Just to be clear .... they are changing each charge on each folio from BOSI to BOS. One folio I am aware of was changed in the last few days.

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Hi,
I got a copy of our folio a few weeks back and the charge was BOS Ireland and straight to Tanager in 2014?? How can BOS plc change this legally??

las66 said:

Hi,
I got a copy of our folio a few weeks back and the charge was BOS Ireland and straight to Tanager in 2014?? How can BOS plc change this legally??

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Simply its probably not legal...you would have to give consent I'd imagine similar to how a securitization process works

There's law for the plebs and a law for the banks !!

Tracker with BOSI 2007 - 30 year interest only

Checked the Land registry today.

The title was changed on the 09th April 2015 to this

"The title to this charge was transferred by virtue of a cross border merger made in accordance with Directive 2005/56/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council that was approved by order of The Court of Session of Scotland to take effect at 23:59 hours GMT on 31st December 2010. See entry no. 5 below.

BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC is owner of the charge at entry no. 4 above. "

Any thoughts?

Ron said:

Tracker with BOSI 2007 - 30 year interest only

Checked the Land registry today.

The title was changed on the 09th April 2015 to this

"The title to this charge was transferred by virtue of a cross border merger made in accordance with Directive 2005/56/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council that was approved by order of The Court of Session of Scotland to take effect at 23:59 hours GMT on 31st December 2010. See entry no. 5 below.

BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC is owner of the charge at entry no. 4 above. "

Any thoughts?

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The Irish Times article March 29, 2015 (linked below) discusses this.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ay-affect-bosi-distressed-mortgages-1.2157618

While most of the article deals with the potential repercussions should things not be fixed (i.e. the big bad hedge fund/banks will take a bath) it gives only 1 sentence to what I think is the most important part - A Dept of Finance response to the judge's comments, noting the PRA had subsequently amended its administrative decisions in light of Laffoy's comments and as such no legislative implications would arise (i.e. the PRA fixed the loan owners problem and didn't need the government to pass legislation). That was on March 29th so the change you saw on April 9th possibly reflected that - the transfer of the charge from Bank of Scotland (Ireland) Limited to Bank of Scotland PLC.

Furthermore, if my reading of this is correct, should the mortgage issue not have been fixed, the implications would be to make the loan unsecured. As such, the Bank could still seek possession of the underlying home but it would be a longer and more expensive process - i.e. the borrower would default, the loan owner would demand full repayment of the loan, full repayment was not forthcoming, the Lender would seek a judgement in the courts, they would then seek possession of the debtor's assets - the problem for the Lender would be the risk of recovery being diluted by other debts (credit card, revenue etc).

I could be completly wrong though. LOL.

Ron said:

interesting Gerry thanks

its with lonestar now.

So if its registered to BOS PLC whats to stop them just transferring to Start/ Lodestar?

this line could be a Yoda quote "From his view Bos will in arrears hassle be in trouble"

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I am surprised if your loan was transferred to loanstar that they were not already the charge on your folio? Ours was not changed to BOS PLC it just went straight from BOS Ireland to Tanager!!

to Ias 66,

your copy of the Folio displays what is called "imperfection of title" since it reads Bank of Scotland ( Ireland ) to tanager in 2014. We all know that Bank of Scotland ( Ireland ) ceased to exist in 2010; therefore the charge could not have been transferred between these two entities in 2014. So does Tanager actual have a valid charge over your property ? Interesting isn't it !

Keep the folio you have safe, it is gold dust ! If you go to conversation mode I will talk to you about the above

Hi Folks, Most of what you guys are saying is going over my head! I have a few questions if anyone can help.

I have a Bank of Scotland tracker mortgage since 2006-2007. I have a letter from BOS telling me the mortgage has been transferred to Lonestar. I also have a letter from Start telling me that they are the new owners on my account.

My question is as follows:

Can I conduct a sale of the property today, considering all the mess with regard to title between the various parties?

Can BOS (or who ever now owns my mortgage account) force me out of the property for non payment of my mortgage?

Suppose the new owners of my mortgage offer me a write off on a portion of my mortgage and agree to allow a sale for a figure less that the amount owing, will this sale be possible to get over the line considering the issues with title?

Tom2458 said:

Suppose the new owners of my mortgage offer me a write off on a portion of my mortgage and agree to allow a sale for a figure less that the amount owing, will this sale be possible to get over the line considering the issues with title?

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There are no issues with the title. the issues raised are in respect of the ownership of the charge on the property. As BoSI is no longer a legal entity the charge should now vest in the ownership of Lonestar (this appears to be where the uncertainty lies). Lonestar should have the capacity to vacate this charge as owners of the charge. However, given the comments above re uncertainty over the legality of transfer of charge ownership this appears to be unclear. I.e. Will a purchasers solicitor accept a vacate from Lonestar? This is the issue that needs to be clarified

So really this property cannot be sold until this mess is sorted. I cant see any purchasers solicitor accepting the transfer of ownership considering the uncertainty.

I agree, the issue is essentially one of the ownership of the charge. The PRAI in notice 2/2014 are trying to retrospectively allow for a change of ownership, contrary to statutory rules which was originally legislated for in the Registration of Titles Act 1964/2006. This action of the PRAI, although probably common sense, can definitely be challenged in court as unconstitutional. There is also the European Law aspect of legitimate expectation which is a corner stone principal of European law. The action of the PRAI could be considered to be a breach of this principle and thus unlawful. The whole situation is quite a complicated legal mess.

Bronte said:

Still don't get it. What's it for. Have you one to show us please.

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Pretty much every mortgage deed contains an irrevocable power of attorney in favour of the mortgagee (lender). This is to further empower the mortgagee (or any receiver appointed by the mortgagee) to execute documents in respect of, and otherwise to deal with, the secured property in accordance with the powers granted under the mortgage.

The power of attorney cannot be revoked as long as the mortgage remains in place. However, if for any reason the mortgage is found to be invalid then the power of attorney granted thereunder will also be invalid.

I have never seen a home loan agreement (as opposed to a mortgage deed) that contains a power of attorney.

I would be very wary of any claims made by or on behalf of Mr Gilroy and his merry band of Freemen.

Bronte said:

Me too.

In relation to this:

I have never seen a home loan agreement (as opposed to a mortgage deed) that contains a power of attorney.

The home loan agreement is the document you sign to accept the mortgage, but when the sale is being closed and the mortgage put in place the mortgage deed is then signed if I recall correctly. So it's that I've to have a look at I guess.

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You are correct Bronte, the POA is included, as Sarenco states, within the mortgage deed. The loan agreement and mortgage deed are usually attached together and sent to the borrower by financial institutions who bother to comply with statutory legislation, that being section 130(a) of the Consumer Credit Act 1995, but hey it they don't bother, nothing happens. Great little Country we live in.

Bronte said:

But at the end of all this how has the borrower or Gilboy won anything, presumably they have merely delayed the inevitable and the ACC bank will have moved to validly appoint a receiver correctly.

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That's it in a nutshell. Pretty much the definition of a pyrrhic victory.

To recover damages you have to demonstrate loss.

Folks

Off topic and personalised attacks have been deleted.

Brendan