Why are the 300,000 SVR holders not taking to the streets?

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el chapucero

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1. 300,000+ SVR mortgage holders, most passively happy to be fleeced by the bank and the "kick the can down the road" attitude of the Government.
2. Minister Noonan has meetings and makes statements but as each month passes the banks continues fleecing the SVR people and throw a morsel of a 0,25% reduction that should have been passed on with other reductions years ago.
3. Now that the Banks are pushed they try to switch the SVR holders to fixed rates to lock them in.
4. No protest.
5. A recent meeting was attended with around 150 people of the 300,000+ [ the banks must be delighted].

If the 300,000+ were really concerned then a target of 3% max SVR would be achieved quickly by well attended strong protests [might be better to have on Saturdays as many have to work during the week to pay the bills].
The only real bargaining tool is a general election vote and more public pressure on elected representatives. This campaign needs people to step up to the plate URGENTLY. Waiting for the Government is a waste of time.

I wonder did any SVR holders protest about water charges ? [ if so it would be a joke the have the equivalent of an annual water charge overcharged MONTHLY by a bank and not bother protesting about that.]
A massive protest is needed before Minister Noonan's July deadline - without this the banks will offer the absolute minimum and get away again and more high mortgage payment months will have passed.
 
No we are not rich, we have been knocking on our TD's doors in a private capacity about these issues.
Being a Public Servant, our Code of Ethics means I cannot be seen at these protest events. I do support and encourage others who can attend to do so. Let there be no doubt, FG and Labour will get it in the neck when the election comes round. Pay has not increased in this household in years, but these stealth costs have not gone unnoticed.
IW will have to wait for their payment for quite some time, who knows, they too may be gone in a years time.
 
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Whatever El Chapucero. Just go ahead and continue to cry for your mammy because those bankers are all so bad and overcharge you.
If you don't like their terms and conditions that you signed up for, pay back the money you own and you don't have to worry about any interest rates.
Nobody puts a gun to your head to take out a mortgage.
 
Well said Newirishman. Don't understand what Agent 47 reference to "relevant organisation" within public service means but it seems the chip on shoulder extends to hard pressed public servant pay, unfair water charges, and now the highly topical SVR. If he/ she is in a "relevant" sphere maybe they are aware the UK SVR rates average at 4.85% and fees are commonly charged on mortgages internationally (there are none in Ireland). These add to the cost in other jurisdictions, but are not captured in rates quoted, nor are they referenced in the ill-informed comparisons media/ political commentators often make. If customers are not happy, then move your mortgatge to lowest in market which range from 3.5%, a mortgage rate that shouldn't be considered high unless you're a politician looking for soundbites to influence 300000 potential voters.
 
Re previous comment, I just googled mortgage rates in the UK , One can get very good rates in the Uk for as low as 1.5% maybe lower, and 10 year fixed for as little as 3.00% I would gladly pay 1000gbp fees , to get these rates, and gladly move my mortgage if i could.
As far as no one put a gun to my head , if i don't pay the exploitative rates , then i lose my home, So there is a gun to my head. Roll on the Election
 
Yes there are UK rates at 1%,to 2% which are really good incentive or 'teaser rates' rates. These normally last for 2 or 3 years at which point the rate goes to SVR, which typically range from 4 to 5%. Depending on how much deposit you can contribute, the very best APR is usually 4% or higher, so not too dissimilar from here over the term of the mortgage. The 10 year fixed is also good value if you know you will retain the mortgage for that period, but with fees and fact it reverts to a higher SVR the APR will be somewhat higher, again not always as good as it seems.
 
newirishman said:
Whatever El Chapucero. Just go ahead and continue to cry for your mammy because those bankers are all so bad and overcharge you.
If you don't like their terms and conditions that you signed up for, pay back the money you own and you don't have to worry about any interest rates.
Nobody puts a gun to your head to take out a mortgage.
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This Post is really distasteful, meaningless, personalised and of no benefit to the campaign or anybody. El Chapucero has made a really positive and meaningful contribution to the debate which should be encouraged and acted on.
 
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newirishman said:
Whatever El Chapucero. Just go ahead and continue to cry for your mammy because those bankers are all so bad and overcharge you.
If you don't like their terms and conditions that you signed up for, pay back the money you own and you don't have to worry about any interest rates.
Nobody puts a gun to your head to take out a mortgage.
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Hello newirishman , it is true that there was and is no gun to my head ;it is more like trying to keep a roof over my head. I think that if it was as easy as you say and all the SVR mortgage holders were able to pay off the mortgages and walk away then the banks would have a nice mess with remaining ,particularly tracker, mortgages.
I see the reason for this high SVR campaign is the unfair overcharging on SVR mortgages in a market that is not competitive, resulting from the fall out from the economic crisis. We are democratically entitled to protest to this unjust overcharging and strong protest is needed to get action from our Government.
Yes- Roll on the Election.
 
el chapucero said:
Yes- Roll on the Election.
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You are not the only one who has made this type of comment. I would just like to know what political party can give a credible pledge to lower mortgage interest rates. I do not know one. I would also worry about Governments interfering with rates as it will not send a positive message to new entrants from abroad.
I would think that sorting out the repossession mess that this country uniquely allows would be a lot more beneficial to mortgage holders and might tempt an outside bank to set up here. Encouraging competition is the best method to reducing interest rates.
The next best method would be if 50% of the 300,000 SVR Mortgage holders took a few hours to start pestering their mortgage provider to lower their interest rate or alternatively move to another provider.
Why do so many people not try and help them selves and just leave it to others to carry the can for them.
 
el chapucero said:
Hello newirishman , it is true that there was and is no gun to my head ;it is more like trying to keep a roof over my head. I think that if it was as easy as you say and all the SVR mortgage holders were able to pay off the mortgages and walk away then the banks would have a nice mess with remaining ,particularly tracker, mortgages.
I see the reason for this high SVR campaign is the unfair overcharging on SVR mortgages in a market that is not competitive, resulting from the fall out from the economic crisis. We are democratically entitled to protest to this unjust overcharging and strong protest is needed to get action from our Government.
Yes- Roll on the Election.
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I understand, selling the house the clear the mortgage and buy somewhere else cheaper (or rent) isn't a desirable alternative for many.
(even worse of course if you are in negative equity!). Despite all that, the current 4.5% or so rates are close to the lowest we had in probably four decades.
Of course it also means that if mortgage interest rates are pushed down then interest rates on savings will have to go down as well and probably hit <0.5%.

And you are of course very welcome to protest!

However people might disagree with the idea of the government mucking about in the banking business again. The previous guys did enough damage in 2008, so I am surprised that suddenly the government is seen as being competent enough to tell the banks what to do.
 
The difference now from 2008 is that the government effectively own part of the banks. The whole crisis was created precisely because the government didn't interfere with the banks to begin with, didn't put a brake on the mad lending that was going on from 2003 to circa 2007- this was following Alan greenspan theory of light regulations this left us all in the soup.
I would like to think that we learnt from that disaster and encourage measured government control of banking. Regarding the svr rates issue, Brendan burgess has crunched the numbers on this site and we pay way higher than our European neighbours. We signed up to rates that would follow the market (see Millar judgment ) . This isn't happening.
 
Yes rates are low historically for the Irish consumer, but not low enough, the pricing reflects a normal working market, we are in an Irish dysfunctional mortgage market.

A combination of teasers rates and low fixed rates ie 3 % is far better than paying the banks margins of 300 % 350%

Rather than gouge their customers , Banks should take a longer term view and offer good long term rates.

A 3% fixed rate for 5yr 7 yr & 10Yr could be a solution to the problem, This would mean a smaller margin for the Banks,but would support performing mortgages to remain performing and keep the Banks solvent in the long run. What will happen when the Germans want to push up the rates, Irish Mortgage holders will be faced 6% 7 % rates , and the Banks will be faced with more mortgage arrears.

Yes deposits accounts are likely to go down, but there are more options available to deposit holders, Variable mortgage holders have very few options.

With regard to the Government mucking about in the Banking business again, the Bankers need no help in mucking things up , they have proven themselves expert in that area, and when they muck up again they will come cap in hand to guess who? Yes the Government.

Point of information Tsb and Icc both state banks did well before the private bankers got hold of them. So much for the Government mucking up !!


The respective Chief executives of our our troubled banks have a very short time horizon 2 or 3 years before there off somewhere else to the next best paid job with their bonuses and bloated pensions funded by you the taxpayer.

The solution to the mortgage problems must be viewed in time-frames longer than our Banking executives vision.

In this new Ireland of ours maybe we could have some joined up thinking and Variable Mortgage Holders could have access to equality as well.
 
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There is a real issue with the level of nonperforming loans recorded on Irisk Bank balance sheets which is contributing to higher SVR rates in Ireland. While its a nice thought that Politicians will be able to enforce rate reductions, this may detremental to competition in the long run. Irish banks have recently been downgraded by Fitch, the international rating agency which may increase the cost of borrowing for Irish Banks. The inability to enforce mortgage security, and the inefficiency of the legal system as it relates to property possession, are far more worrying aspects that could inhibit new entrants, or even constrain existing encumbents from lowering rates to levels elsewhere. In my opinion, Political capital gained by populist TD rhetoric won't be as important as international financial capital needed to fund Irish mortgages in determining Irish SVR rates.
 
  1. Agree totally with chapucero regarding the lack of protest, maybe its because people are not suffering enough and maybe they need the banks to put up the rates a few more times before they stop leaving it to the small minority who are doing great work keeping it in the public eye. For me the banks will put the rates up again WHEN not if the ECB start raising the rates again and by then the banks owned by the state now will have been sold and the election will be over. The campaign needs to be stepped up URGENTLY as chapucero said ASAP and people need to get involved NOW. I detest, like the people who are involved with the campaign to date being robbed by organisations not once but twice which is what the banks are doing to all of us, we like the rest of the taxpayers in this country bailed them out once and this is the thanks we get. Come on the silent majority in this
 
tonymac said:
  1. Agree totally with chapucero regarding the lack of protest, maybe its because people are not suffering enough and maybe they need the banks to put up the rates a few more times before they stop leaving it to the small minority who are doing great work keeping it in the public eye. For me the banks will put the rates up again WHEN not if the ECB start raising the rates again and by then the banks owned by the state now will have been sold and the election will be over. The campaign needs to be stepped up URGENTLY as chapucero said ASAP and people need to get involved NOW. I detest, like the people who are involved with the campaign to date being robbed by organisations not once but twice which is what the banks are doing to all of us, we like the rest of the taxpayers in this country bailed them out once and this is the thanks we get. Come on the silent majority in this
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Is there anywhere that we can log names/emails into a petition to Government for a 3% SVR ?

There is strength in numbers.

Has anybody any ideas about how to get a good protest going ?
 
Central Bank have already issued their report on SVR rates, and followed it up with an Oireachtas appearance on Thursday. On both occasions they set out their stall warning against government intervention, and stating they did not want such regulatory powers. Their argument is based on the premise that any intervention will deter new market entrants and inhibit competition. On Thursday Mr Honohan referred to 15,000 customers that could save €1000 if they switched. There is no need forr these 15000 customers to inundate the CB, just contact their bank explain that they are switching to a competitor for a lower rate, and one will magically appear! There are rates available from 3.5% today, so consumer action, rather than words needs to take place.
 
Hi where is the 3,5 per cent rate. Is that kbc?
I think it's a pity that the rate change is so slow and so small.
regarding people not switching, perhaps it is that people's financial statements look a bit shaky? If most of the high rate svrs with high repayments are post 2009 (as was suggested previously on askaboutmoneye)perhaps it's a particular cohort that suffered a lot financially? I don't know. It would be interesting to see if there is a particular profile of svr holders. I imagine that where svrs only have a few years left, the mortgage holder is older and not particularly bothered about switching.
 
Also i know of two people who when they queried their banks rate were offered 3.8 per cent fixed for two years and are happy enough to take that rather than play the longer game of negotiation/paperwork. I think rates are going to go down further than 3,8% myself.i was also offered 3.8 fixed for 2 years but I'm going to push for lower svr. If there is going to be more competition then presumably there will be here, like the UK, more banks offering teaser rates. If I can switch once, hopefully I'll be able to switch again!! (if I don't drown in a sea of paperwork:)
 
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