A&E departments crammed to capacity,whats Leo going to do now?

I do think you are being a bit harsh here Delboy !

There can be no doubt that it is the Government who are initiating discourse on ameliorating the pay cuts & suggesting broad support for social dialogue on wage & taxation matters.

Pat King of ICTU has confirmed that as yet she has not received an invitation to talks on either matter.


Beaumont hospital have confirmed the INMO's stance that staffing levels need to be addressed & recruitment is to begin immediately & surely it's not too much to hope that other understaffed hospitals follow suit ?

I do understand that some people are concerned at the thought of Public Sector wage cuts being reversed & at the fact that social dialogue is being mooted but if that's the way the Government want to proceed then I'm sure the Unions will meet them half way !
 
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The social dialogue concept has been broadly supported by both Mr. Noonan & Mr. Howlin , the proposed talks mooted for March on the question of pay cut reductions & a future pathway on the expiration of the Haddington Road Agreement are obviously going to be hosted by Mr. Howlin under whose ministerial bailiwick this falls .

Given the scope & effect that such matters are going to have on the economy there can be little doubt that both Government parties have given their blessing to such proposed talks.

It should be remembered these matters are being currently solely driven by the Government - ICTU have received no invitation to talks .
 
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Déise, You are wasting your time and giving yourself an ulcer. Some of the contributors on here when it comes to the Public Service just want more cuts no matter what. Anything that will take any pressure off the private sector will do, it's nothing short of begrudgery. Don't tell me you didn't know that the Private Sector is the panacea of all ills. The Public Sector is an easy target. I tend to make an exception in Purple's case though; he speaks from his point of view but recognises others to have their views also. Just remember that Ian Paisley while a Unionist and through his bigoted speeches did more recruiting for the IRA than they could ever do themselves.
 
If increases in pay, or pay rates in general, were the root cause of the problem, or if they would solve the problem, then I'd be all in favour of them. The thing is that we all know they are not. I find the stance of the INMO and the way they use any excuse to push for pay increases for their members to be despicable.
The fact is that if anyone in the health service deserves pay increases it's the hated clerical staff. The fact is that by EU and OECD standards our "front line" staff in health, education and policing are relatively well paid and our non front line staff is not quite so well paid.

If we had a well run, well structured and efficient health service we'd have no problem hiring all the suitable people we need. Why don't we fix it rather than having to pay people a premium to work in a rubbish service? Who knows, we might eventually end up with a health service who's primary goal is to provide a decent, efficient service to the public.
I detest Unions because they are hypocrites and they hurt the poor, the sick and the vulnerable but they are not the only vested interest group which does that.
 
Leper said:
Some of the contributors on here when it comes to the Public Service just want more cuts no matter what. Anything that will take any pressure off the private sector will do, it's nothing short of begrudgery.
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Could you possibly be referring to me?
 
Good news & bad news .

A recruitment drive is to be undertaken at Limerick Hospital to address staffing shortages & 12 additional beds are to provided in Lourdes Hospital to address overcrowding issues - these are 2 of the hospitals where INMO members have overwhelmingly voted in favour of a work to rule .

On the debit side the Irish Times is reporting that kidney donations may have to be sent abroad as there are only 4 transplant surgeons in the renal unit in Beaumont - half the recommended staffing level , two recruitment drives have failed to recruit suitable applicants as the starting salary of € 109,000 is not attractive.

It does appear that the 30% cut in new consultants salary is going to be reversed via the Labour Court & an increasingly pragmatic Government , it cannot surely be long until the disastrous yellow pack nursing graduate scheme is replaced in order to deal with the increasing nursing staff shortages ?
 
Delboy said:
Could you possibly be referring to me?
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My Gawd, Del! - Don't ever go to Bingo, 'cos if somebody from the Public Service won even a line, you'd be picked up off the floor seething into Jack-the-Ripper mode. Keep it up, you'll drive people back to trades unions.
 
Purple said:
If increases in pay, or pay rates in general, were the root cause of the problem, or if they would solve the problem, then I'd be all in favour of them. The thing is that we all know they are not. I find the stance of the INMO and the way they use any excuse to push for pay increases for their members to be despicable.
The fact is that if anyone in the health service deserves pay increases it's the hated clerical staff. The fact is that by EU and OECD standards our "front line" staff in health, education and policing are relatively well paid and our non front line staff is not quite so well paid.

If we had a well run, well structured and efficient health service we'd have no problem hiring all the suitable people we need. Why don't we fix it rather than having to pay people a premium to work in a rubbish service? Who knows, we might eventually end up with a health service who's primary goal is to provide a decent, efficient service to the public.
I detest Unions because they are hypocrites and they hurt the poor, the sick and the vulnerable but they are not the only vested interest group which does that.
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You see, Purple the Government's plan is to privatise the Health Service. You probably noticed that private hospitals are extending their services into areas where the HSE reigned supreme (well, probably not so supremely!). What is happening in Aer Lingus now is what will be happening to our Health Service a few short years down the road. The Health Insurance companies will be running our Health Service and wait for the cost. It's too late to reverse the process at this stage and like the turkeys we the Irish cannot wait for Christmas.
 
Leper said:
You see, Purple the Government's plan is to privatise the Health Service. You probably noticed that private hospitals are extending their services into areas where the HSE reigned supreme (well, probably not so supremely!).
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I have no problem with a privately delivered health service, if that offers the best value and quality to the public. If a publically delivered service is the best option then I have no problem with that. I simply want the best service we can afford. Structural deficiencies within the health service require capital expenditure. If we spend the money on pay increases instead then we will not be able to address those issues.
What are your views on how the INMO represent and mis-represent every issue in the health service as an excuse to agitate for pay increases for their members?
Leper said:
What is happening in Aer Lingus now is what will be happening to our Health Service a few short years down the road. The Health Insurance companies will be running our Health Service and wait for the cost. It's too late to reverse the process at this stage and like the turkeys we the Irish cannot wait for Christmas.
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Aer Lingus has greatly reduced its costs and is one of the few airlines in Europe making a profit. That’s all down to competitive pressures. It’s very hard to move from an organisation which has no culture of competition or efficiency to one that does but after a while it just becomes part of the culture. It’s a bit like getting physically fit. It is interesting that the unionised civil servants in the department of transport and the unionised management in Aer Lingus would rather sell the company to a unionised British airline than a non unionised Irish one.
 
Leper said:
Some of the contributors on here when it comes to the Public Service just want more cuts no matter what. Anything that will take any pressure off the private sector will do, it's nothing short of begrudgery.
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Hi Leper,

Just in case I am included in this group, I'd just like to state that my primary concern (and always has been if you look at my posts) is that I don't want our children inheriting our generation's debt, the vast majority of which was not to bail out the banks.

Anyway, I've banged on enough about the National Debt I think, who knows, maybe Deise is right, maybe Draghi will just disappear away all our problems with that "Magic Money Tree" printing press of his!

Firefly.
 
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Leper said:
My Gawd, Del! - Don't ever go to Bingo, 'cos if somebody from the Public Service won even a line, you'd be picked up off the floor seething into Jack-the-Ripper mode. Keep it up, you'll drive people back to trades unions.
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Whatever!
What if it was myself that won at the Bingo....would I be seething with self-loathing seeing as I have worked in the PS myself for many years and therefore feel well placed to comment on threads that are so related. Or were you not aware of that and are just firing a generalism to back up your own beliefs/biases?
 
Delboy said:
Whatever!
What if it was myself that won at the Bingo....would I be seething with self-loathing seeing as I have worked in the PS myself for many years and therefore feel well placed to comment on threads that are so related. Or were you not aware of that and are just firing a generalism to back up your own beliefs/biases?
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That threw them! :D
 
Delboy said:
Whatever!
What if it was myself that won at the Bingo....would I be seething with self-loathing seeing as I have worked in the PS myself for many years and therefore feel well placed to comment on threads that are so related. Or were you not aware of that and are just firing a generalism to back up your own beliefs/biases?
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Gee Delboy, thanks for opening my eyes. I didn't realise what a liability and embarrassment we Public Service employees are to the state. Tell you what,to make it up to you and whoever else (not Purple though as there's hope for him) I suggest that another levy should be inflicted on the Public Service to allow all those smug hard working conscience of the state private sector experts go to bingo weekly at our expense. Also, I suggest no Public Service person should attend these bingo sessions just in case they might win something.
 
Leper said:
Gee Delboy, thanks for opening my eyes. I didn't realise what a liability and embarrassment we Public Service employees are to the state. Tell you what,to make it up to you and whoever else (not Purple though as there's hope for him) I suggest that another levy should be inflicted on the Public Service to allow all those smug hard working conscience of the state private sector experts go to bingo weekly at our expense. Also, I suggest no Public Service person should attend these bingo sessions just in case they might win something.
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Jeez no, we've enough levies etc in the Public Sector- don't be giving ideas to the Private sector boyo's... we must stand together Leper!!!
 
Delboy said:
Jeez no, we've enough levies etc in the Public Sector- don't be giving ideas to the Private sector boyo's... we must stand together Leper!!!
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Del, you have put my mind at ease. There I was thinking Purple and myself going down the road for a pint and a chat about the economics of a wet shave over a dry shave and suddenly you want to join us. Now, I'm really worried. Eddie Hobbs will want to join us next!
 
The problem isn’t public sector employees. They are no more or less likely to work hard than any other employees. The problem is that they work in inefficient organisations who run inefficient processes and systems. There is little reward for hard work and little sanction for laziness or incompetence. In short the system is set up to encourage mediocrity. The fact that most people in the public service do a good job is very much to their credit and says a lot about the strength of their character as individuals.
Another problem is that because of a strongly Unionised workforce there is little mobility of labour and so shortages in one area cannot be plugged by reallocating resources from areas where there is an oversupply. An example of oversupply was shown when 2000 unnecessary staff from county councils were transferred to Irish Water at a cost of €92,000,000 a year. This is paid for by the people of Ireland through their water bills. That’s €92,000,000 that is not being spent on infrastructure (fixing leaks). Given that there are over 100,000 people employed by the HSE one can only imagine how much bigger the problem is there. The multiplicity of contracts for nurses and other employees also adds a significant administrative and general HR cost.
That leads on to another problem; bad capital infrastructure. Because of the undeniable lack of capital investment in our health services through the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s, exacerbated by the fact that the state doesn’t actually own many of the hospitals in the public health system, our physical infrastructure is grossly inefficient. Parochial concerns about keeping what are in effect village hospitals open have also stymied the ability of the HSE to modernise and move towards best practice.
So the problem isn’t lazy and/or overpaid staff. The problem is that the inefficiencies within the structures and systems mean that vast amounts of money is wasted. Therefore there is no money left for patient care or pay increases. If people want pay rises they have to show how the money can be saved within the organisation. I’d love to see real and auditable efficiency targets agreed with pay increases tied into those targets being achieved. The targets should have to be based on structural reform and measured by an independent body which has no tied to the unions or management. It is undoubtable that fewer staff will be in the system when it is finished but there is no reason why in this very small country we shouldn’t have the best healthcare system in the world. The problem is that it is dependent on the constructive engagement of the people who know best how to fix it; the people who currently work in it. Unions and politicians and other vested interest groups will, unfortunately, stop it from happening.
It is worth remembering that those who fear change know that they do not have what they have on merit.
 
Leper said:
Del, you have put my mind at ease. There I was thinking Purple and myself going down the road for a pint and a chat about the economics of a wet shave over a dry shave and suddenly you want to join us. Now, I'm really worried. Eddie Hobbs will want to join us next!
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What's this about a pint?!
 
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