Hybrids - good idea or no?

C

conastatu

Guest
I'm thinking of buying a new car next year to replace my 8 year old, 150K, 1.4ltr, 5 door Nissan Almera. I fancy getting a hybrid, probably because I've fallen for the marketing eco-friendly hype more than anything else. Researching them, it looks like the only real choice I have (in the same range of size etc) is the Toyota Prius or the Honda Civic.

So:
(1) Am I being an idiot falling for the eco-friendly hype?
(2) Is there much difference between the two performance-wise?
(3) Are there any hidden dangers/expenses in buying these seeing as they are relatively new technology e.g. service, maintenance & repairs: will I be forced to go back to the dealer every time due to a general lack of knowledge about these cars amongst independent mechanics?
(4) Seeing as the tecnology is relatively new, would I be better off to buy a brand new one, or is there any value to be had in buying a 1 or 2 year old one?
(5) What sort of money am I likely to get for my own car? The guy who I get to service it tells me that the engine will easily do another 100K. The body is beginning to show a bit of wear though...interior squeaks and rattles, slowing automatic windows, one or two tiny signs of rust pitts in the the paintwork. Should I sell it privately or try to trade it?
(6) Is there an optimum time in the year to change your car...start, middle, end, close to end of any of the 4 quarters, etc, etc.

And finally
(7) I'm female...should I send a male friend in to buy the car for me....will they automatically get a better deal (I hate asking that one, but I really think that it's likely).
 
If you are concerned with the environment, then you are probably better to get a small diesel car. When you factor in the additional costs and materials required to build these hybrids they are no better for the environment than normal cars. Also the economy for the latest diesel engines are just as good as the hybrids.

Independent mechanics would probably not be able to do much with these but then again neither of these cars would be expected to break down much so that may not matter.
I would say your almera is worth about 2k. Sell it privately.
 
conastatu said:
(1) Am I being an idiot falling for the eco-friendly hype?
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a hyped product doesn't have to be bad. I am also thinking about buying a new hybrid so maybe we are both idiots.
(2) Is there much difference between the two performance-wise?
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The civic has slightly weaker acceleration, slightly worse fuel economy and slightly higer emissions. -slightly-
(3) Are there any hidden dangers/expenses in buying these seeing as they are relatively new technology e.g. service, maintenance & repairs: will I be forced to go back to the dealer every time due to a general lack of knowledge about these cars amongst independent mechanics?
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Both Honda and Toyota have 3 yr guarantees. Toyota has 8yrs guarantee on the hybrid parts. You're probably right though that you will have to pay maintenance at a main dealer.
(4) Seeing as the tecnology is relatively new, would I be better off to buy a brand new one, or is there any value to be had in buying a 1 or 2 year old one?
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Prius had its last major upgrade in 2004. Next one due 2009/2010. You should get around 20% off by buying a year old car. I want to buy a high spec model and it seems that the price of options is discounted very rapidly so I think I'll go for a 1-3 year old car.

(6) Is there an optimum time in the year to change your car...start, middle, end, close to end of any of the 4 quarters, etc, etc.
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people usually buy at the start of the year to improve residual values. This is a special year, though as the annual motor tax is going down in July from 313-100 per year and VRT rates are changing on hybrids although exact details have not yet been explained. I can't imagine that a lot of hybrid cars will be sold in the first half of 2008.

(7) I'm female...should I send a male friend in to buy the car for me....will they automatically get a better deal
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It is good to get a friend to negotiate on your behalf. Some people enjoy it - I know I do - and it's easier for some reason to negotiate for a third party. I don't think men are better at negotiating than women. I asked the local toyota dealer what his 'best price' was for a new car and he took 6% off right away. So I reckon you could get 9% off.

A lot of people will point out that a hybrid like a prius only has the same fuel efficiency as a micra or a yaris. This ignores that these cars are not in the same class (family vs supermini). A diesel will also give equivalent fuel efficiency but diesels have other emissions such as NOx and particulates (newer diesels are cleaner than before). Also diesels are noisy.

The prius can be driven on the battery alone if you stay below 45km/h and the battery is more than half charged. This gives a very silent ride in urban traffic for listening to music. Believe it or not this is a major selling point for me.
 
Your other choice is the new Mitsubishi i electric. Plug in and good for 93 miles and can charge the battery to 80% capacity in 20 minutes.

Not sure though when it is coming to these shores.
 
Hybrid cars are an environmental catastrophe of grand proportions and should not be considered under any circumstances...

They are a sham and fraud and a way for car companies to make money and pander to the vainities of psuedo environmentalists...

Do any of you know how much carbon is thrown into the air in shipping each of these models over from Japan...

Last year's US Green car of the year was the Escalade Hybrid, a car (and I use that term loosely) that does 21mpg...

While concentrating on the latest VRT dodging power barge from Lexus or Mitsondoyota's latest marketing excercise we are ignoring modern technologies (fuel cell... alternative fuels etc) that really are the green alternative...
 
RainyDay said:
Presumably, about the same carbon as shipping non-hybrid models from Japan?
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Yes... exactly... which is why you should check to see where any car (and any product come to that) was manufactured and how it was transported...
 
Better to wait till after july when the new vrt and tax comes in and by a small to mid size diesel

corolla
polo
megane
306

all have mid size good diesels that are way ahead of any gimic hybrid.

The hybrids still have to carry extra kg's of batteries and motors to do the electric bit. They are not as good as the small diesel. Fact
 
Frank said:
corolla
polo
megane
306

all have mid size good diesels that are way ahead of any gimic hybrid.
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All of these are smaller cars than the Prius and not directly comparable. For comparable cars see : http://www.euroncap.com/large_family_car.aspx

The Civic is in the same class as corolla, megane and 306.

The hybrids still have to carry extra kg's of batteries and motors to do the electric bit. They are not as good as the small diesel. Fact
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A car in the same class as a prius such as an Avensis diesel 2.0 weighs more than a prius. I guess that's because an Avensis has a diesel engine that outweighs a 1.5l petrol engine plus batteries.

There are a lot of ways to compare cars and you'll come up with different answers depending on your requirements. It's not as simple as saying 'a diesel is better than a hybrid. Fact'.
 
I was thinking of getting a Honda civic hybrid but have heard if you need to replace the battery it's very costly? Anybody know how much ? I know honda hybrid guarantee for 80k and 8 years. Are the costs of servicing more expensive than normal ?
 
Another point I read about the Hybrids is that if they are in a n accident you have to be very careful as the electric may not be cut off and there is a possibility of electrocution.
 
There are a couple of problems with the overall "green" status of Hybrids. The most obvious one is the "MPG". You have to take all claims on MPG with a pinch of salt, but the initial claims of the hybirds were on very ideal conditions. Overall, if you do a mixture of city and inter county travel, a diesel is more economic on fuel.

The other aspect is the manufacturing. There is a greater "carbon footprint" at the moment for hybrids because some of the components (namely the battery, its fixings and some other features) have to be imported. Any country with a car manufacturing base can knock out a general combustion engine, so no need for importing. However, the battery and some other components are specialised and do.
 
Summary - concerned with the environment= buy a small diesel car.
 
If you can stretch for it buy a newish BMW 320D. Over 40mpg (real, urban mpg), a fantastic car to drive and it doesn’t cost the earth to ship it here (nice pun, eh ;)) and you are keeping the money in your home market (the EU).
 
man this thread has some time span.

Yeah an 08 3 series diesel

lots of poke
cheap road tax
easy on juice
real green credentials.

beats a hybrid anyday you just need to be smug about genuinely green rather than following the rest of the prius sheep who buy and don't research the facts.
 
Like the look of the Honda civic Hybrids from an aesthetic point of view and want low cost motoring ie this car is 104euro to tax ( looking at buying 08 car)and was assuming inexpensive to run. If I go for diesel probably d4d corolla or 1.9 jetta.

Anybody have experience of Honda civic Hybrid from cost of servicing and any issues with the battery as they are supposedly expensive to replace ?
 
Volvo S40 1.6 Diesel does about 60 mpg Urban, same as Prius, but is a larger, more comfortable and safer car. Once you get into the extra-urban environment a mid-size Diesel will be considerably more fuel efficient than the Prius.
 
Don't buy a hybrid to save the planet - there are much better ways. For example, if you switch from eating meat to becoming a vegetarian, this will lessen your carbon footprint by the same amount as switching from a 3 litre SUV to riding a bicycle.

Driving a hybrid car is more a statement about the kind of person you want to be - rather than really doing somehing to save the planet.
 
DaveyByrne said:
Don't buy a hybrid to save the planet - there are much better ways. For example, if you switch from eating meat to becoming a vegetarian, this will lessen your carbon footprint by the same amount as switching from a 3 litre SUV to riding a bicycle.

Driving a hybrid car is more a statement about the kind of person you want to be - rather than really doing somehing to save the planet.
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Yea, but vegetarianism is counter-evolutionary, just get a European made car with an efficient diesel engine.
BTW, could there be anything more sanctimonious than a vegetarian environmentalist?
 
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