What happens if employees refuse pay cut

jaybird said:
I think thats a bit much, calling them stupid. If an employer told me I was getting a pay cut, and that collegues with families weren't, no negotiation, no please and thank you, just like that, I'd tell them to swing for it too. If they did it properly, I would be completely understanding and do everything I could to help.
The loyalty she has shown them is to discriminate on unfair grounds, and fail to follow even basic procedures. Its not a matter of hurt feelings, its about being treated properly and professionally on all sides. And she can be as "peeved" as she likes, she messed it up in the first place.
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From what the OP posted it lokks like the employer mmade a balls of things but the staff just plain refused to take any pay cuts. They didn't say they would take them if everyone took them, they just said no. In the context of a business going down the pipes what else is it other than stupid?
 
Having had to face NERA and LRC because we didn't 'read up' on employment law was a dumb excuse on our part - we have learnt the hard way and had to face both because we thought we were too busy running the company to have deal with staff properly.

The law is not hard to digest - in fact it is pretty basic stuff.

If your business is in difficulty, get the necessary knowledge to deal with issues and don't hide behind not having time cos you're trying to save the business.

Once we changed our attitude to dealing with our issues more constructively, a masive weight was lifted.
 
jaybird said:
From the info posted, you have no idea why the employees responded in that way, or what they said. We have only the employers friends version, who likely wasn't even there. We do know that the employer doesn't seem to know what she is doing. Its a big leap to call the employees stupid, when the only info available points to the stupidity of the employer.
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We have no idea what the full story is on either side, just a general second hand overview by the owners’ friend. None of us are posting based on anything else. What it look like to me is stupidity on both sides.
Employment law at this level is very simple and takes no more than a few hours to read up on. I don't understand how anyone would not inform themselves before making decisions about pay cuts.
That said pay cuts are necessary in order to make the business viable again so a more constructive approach from the staff would help.
 
Have the employees actually said why they are against the pay cuts. Do they feel she is just trying to pull a fast one.

I am single and no offence to anyone with a young family, if I thought the pay cuts were not universal, I would have a complete canary. Single people have bills too, ie, large mortgage on one (cut) income. Her logic in doing this may be the crux of the matter and should be sorted out.

She sounds like she is a good boss - and people do need to remember this is new to our Employers too. We were in a takeover situation last year (ended up being taking redundancy) and it was handled badly. This was more down to the personalities of the people than any ill intent. I am still friendly terms with both directors as we all did ok out of it and at the end of the day, they are human too.
 
MandaC said:
I am single and no offence to anyone with a young family, if I thought the pay cuts were not universal, I would have a complete canary. Single people have bills too, ie, large mortgage on one (cut) income. Her logic in doing this may be the crux of the matter and should be sorted out.
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I agree completely. No consideration what so ever should be given to a person’s personal circumstance when their pay rate is being set. If wages are set by any criteria other than the value of the input that person has it becomes utterly unfair and arbitrary with the whim of the employer rather than the value of the employee determining remuneration.
 
update on this:

Employees refused flat out to take paycut. Friend returned to all employees including the married/family ones and said that paycut would have to be taken across the board i.e everybody gets same paycut. Immediately family guys accepted paycut, singles guys didn't. Friend then let them know that she would have to consider cutting the number of hours they worked per week. All of the employees came in the following day and stated that they would prefer to have the paycut. Paycut going through.
 
That's great that your friend got agreement. If people are given an option, they are usually accommodating. Good result.
 
ney001 said:
update on this:

Employees refused flat out to take paycut. Friend returned to all employees including the married/family ones and said that paycut would have to be taken across the board i.e everybody gets same paycut. Immediately family guys accepted paycut, singles guys didn't. Friend then let them know that she would have to consider cutting the number of hours they worked per week. All of the employees came in the following day and stated that they would prefer to have the paycut. Paycut going through.
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I note from some of the posts that the employer in question was advised to contact IBEC or the SMA.
I really wonder why workers don't request union representation at times like this.
 
Deiseblue said:
I note from some of the posts that the employer in question was advised to contact IBEC or the SMA.
I really wonder why workers don't request union representation at times like this.
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Because they have sense, perhaps ? Bearing in mind the recent 'near miss' at Lufthansa Technik.
Employees are generally willing to do what needs to be done if given the relevant information. Unions are not, unfortunately, as flexible and would be 'calling on their brethren to show solidarity' etc.etc. leading to strikes and an increased feeling of Us Versus Them rather than Us & Them.
 
Pique318 said:
Because they have sense, perhaps ? Bearing in mind the recent 'near miss' at Lufthansa Technik.
Employees are generally willing to do what needs to be done if given the relevant information. Unions are not, unfortunately, as flexible and would be 'calling on their brethren to show solidarity' etc.etc. leading to strikes and an increased feeling of Us Versus Them rather than Us & Them.
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Well said
 
It must be remembered that "the union" are all the members there off.
The Union representatives are like solicitors, they advise members of their rights and potential consequences of their actions, legal etc.
I am a shop steward and my hardest job is trying to convince members that they will not get extra pay for being "busy", and this is a spurious argument.

If the members decide that they want to ignore this advice, the Union rep. will still represent the members and bring the process through the agreed procedures (Rights Commissioner, Labour Court etc.)

A solicitor will do the same, give you advice, but will continue with the process you want once you pay for the work. (Union Subs cover this).

Also, a comment on the situation above: picking people for pay cuts based on their circumstances is very dangerous under the Equality Legislation...Who's to say that one of the young "single" employees could have two incapacitated parents at home etc. etc.

Gixxer.
 
Pique318 said:
Because they have sense, perhaps ? Bearing in mind the recent 'near miss' at Lufthansa Technik.
Employees are generally willing to do what needs to be done if given the relevant information. Unions are not, unfortunately, as flexible and would be 'calling on their brethren to show solidarity' etc.etc. leading to strikes and an increased feeling of Us Versus Them rather than Us & Them.
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Completely agree, I think there has always been a good relationship between staff and boss here but unions being brought into it would IMO have soured that relationship. As it stands all sides are back to normal now work has resumed and hopefully there will not be any other problems.
 
WaterSprite said:
IIf she makes redundancy selections based on family (or lack thereof) grounds or suchlike, that would invite a pretty clear-cut claim for unfair dismissal/unfair selection.
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discrimination based on Marital status/ family status i think.
Anyway i think she should contact as many people to help her - isme, ibec whomever.

I also wonder aloud as to what the local FF TD would think of the situation and if he she could offer qualified mediation services for free based on the fact it seems like an all or nobody paying tax...
 
Pique318 said:
Because they have sense, perhaps ? Bearing in mind the recent 'near miss' at Lufthansa Technik.
Employees are generally willing to do what needs to be done if given the relevant information. Unions are not, unfortunately, as flexible and would be 'calling on their brethren to show solidarity' etc.etc. leading to strikes and an increased feeling of Us Versus Them rather than Us & Them.
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My reading of the Lufthansa Technick dispute is that the Union on behalf of it's workers faced down Lufthansa on two seperate occassions and negotiated improved terms on behalf of it's members both times.
Brinksmanship perhaps but it worked !
 
The company I work for cut all staff salaries, we all had a meeting and then a letter to state the new salary.
It was not agreed upon though by the staff, we were just told and that was that. BTW there is no union where i work.

Is this illegal by the company?
 
peelaaa said:
The company I work for cut all staff salaries, we all had a meeting and then a letter to state the new salary.
It was not agreed upon though by the staff, we were just told and that was that. BTW there is no union where i work.

Is this illegal by the company?
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Yes

having said that, what were the consequences for the company and you and your colleagues if all staff refused the pay cut. Redundancy and closure?
 
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