Is anyone else cheesed off with how much people get paid on social welfare

Yellow Belly said:
What really bothers me is that school leavers can sign on in the following October after leaving school and also get Jobseeker's Allowance of €204.30 a week if their parent(s) are getting a social welfare payment.

Any thoughts on this?
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I take it they have to show evidence of looking for work the same as anyone else?

After working for 23 years I find myself unemployed for the first time. I paid high rate of tax for most of that time. I am not entitled to any mortgage interest relief, medical card, fuel allowances etc because my partner is working. Believe me €204 does not go very far - particularly if you are saving for the event that you might not secure work before your entitlement runs out. Add food, medical bills, household bills, mortgage, clothes, travel, cost of job applications, emergencies.

I think €204 is what is needed to stay afloat (certainly in Dublin). It is unfair being treated as a married couple (just living together) for sw purposes, but being penalised for tax purposes by not being allowed to share tax credits. It makes me sick to see others claim rentallowance, lone parents, all other allowances when they might be working part-time, have a partner living with them or just be making no effort to work.

Bring in inspectors, private detectives, cash rewards for those who report sw fraudsters. Create stricter criteria for claiming re greater evidence of jobseeking, attending interviews, seeking feedback etc. Role on the public sector pay cuts (my partner will be effected but I'd rather that than a second redundancy at our house).
 
pebbledash said:
I think €204 is what is needed to stay afloat (certainly in Dublin). It is unfair being treated as a married couple (just living together) for sw purposes, but being penalised for tax purposes by not being allowed to share tax credits. It makes me sick to see others claim rentallowance, lone parents, all other allowances when they might be working part-time, have a partner living with them or just be making no effort to work.
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There you go, this highlights my original point. This guy should be getting more dole than my loafer friend, who has no wife, kids and is a net drain on society.

If I lose my job, I have to emigrate. Simple as. I've got 2k mortgage with no possibility of the dole covering it, let alone silly things like food.
 
Actually I wouldn't totally agree with your original point.

I think that to some extent your sw payment should be based on what you earned in terms of prsi contributions. After than I think it should be tightened up once you use up your entitlement.

I agree with means testing. I disagree that people can live on €204 a week. I disagree that larger amounts should be paid to pay peoples' mortgages - we were careful to buy a place that we could just about afford on one salary. I don't think we should have to pay peoples' excessively large mortgages.

I don't think the amounts paid are excessive. I do think that fraud needs to be dealt with and that there needs to be some changes to prevent lifetime dole spongers. There should also be equality in the system so that those couples who are single income can share tax credits whether they are married or not. With proper management I do not think that €204 is excessive.
 
pebbledash said:
I take it they have to show evidence of looking for work the same as anyone else?

After working for 23 years I find myself unemployed for the first time. I paid high rate of tax for most of that time. I am not entitled to any mortgage interest relief, medical card, fuel allowances etc because my partner is working. Believe me €204 does not go very far - particularly if you are saving for the event that you might not secure work before your entitlement runs out. Add food, medical bills, household bills, mortgage, clothes, travel, cost of job applications, emergencies.

I think €204 is what is needed to stay afloat (certainly in Dublin). It is unfair being treated as a married couple (just living together) for sw purposes, but being penalised for tax purposes by not being allowed to share tax credits. It makes me sick to see others claim rentallowance, lone parents, all other allowances when they might be working part-time, have a partner living with them or just be making no effort to work.

I agree with this to an extent!!
How are you being treated as a married couple if just living together?

Bring in inspectors, private detectives, cash rewards for those who report sw fraudsters. Create stricter criteria for claiming re greater evidence of jobseeking, attending interviews, seeking feedback etc.
This could potentially cost more to implement than than the amount it would be designed to save...
Role on the public sector pay cuts (my partner will be effected but I'd rather that than a second redundancy at our house).
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If you cant afford the mortgage move to a smaller house!
SW should not cover someones mortgage!
 
pebbledash said:
Bring in inspectors, private detectives, cash rewards for those who report sw fraudsters.
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I've often wondered why this can't be done. I imagine social welfare fraud detection could easily pay for itself. I think the problem would be issues of civil liberties and entitlement to freedom from "snooping". Personally I think that receipt of a state benefit should be traded against the loss of some of those freedoms/entitlements, but I'd be open to argument. That leaves us with the situation that actually pertains -- the powers-that-be are dependent on inside information from relatives and "friends" ... which is rarely forthcoming, as witnessed by the anecdote on this thread.

Unfortunately I can't see societal attitudes changing sufficiently to address this problem. I've never met anyone with information about tax/benefit cheats willing to report them, no matter how much they're prepared to complain about them ( -- so stop complaining already!). Nor will they share the necessary information with me, because I would shop them tomorrow (...today, in fact, if it wasn't after 5pm :rolleyes:).
 
Yellow Belly said:
...Too much banker & developer bashing at moment- where did all the tax euro come from for the last 10 years? You should be sending all these people get well soon cards as they will have to be on top form to keep the tax receipts up for the next few years.

Concentrate on the real "drain" on our economy- social welfare & the civil service! Have a good bash there before you move on to people who actually TRIED to achieve something!
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Cards to say, thanks for all the credit and all the debt maybe? Thanks for all the shoebox apartments with paper thin walls? Thanks for nothing cards for doctors nurses, police, teachers. Who achieve nothing. Lets have book burning, and lets drive the disadvantaged and poor out. They make no money, and greed is good. Sounds like a plan.
 
jaybird said:
:eek: How silly of me! It really is that easy! I'll just sell my house and pay off the bank...hmmm no that won't work....I'll rent out my house for enough to cover the mortgage....no thats not it either...right then....I'll give it to the bank and they will let me off the negative equity.....wrong again...

Nope I give up. Please do explain how that one works?
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Where are you going with this?
 
SS expert said:
If you cant afford the mortgage move to a smaller house!
SW should not cover someones mortgage!
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Houses are not selling, there are a lot of people in a situation where they would love to sell and move to a smaller house but cant do so because of negative equity.

Its not so simple as sell up and move to somewhere smaller.
 
truthseeker said:
Houses are not selling, there are a lot of people in a situation where they would love to sell and move to a smaller house but cant do so because of negative equity.

Its not so simple as sell up and move to somewhere smaller.
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good point... forgot about negative equity...
 
pebbledash said:
I take it they have to show evidence of looking for work the same as anyone else?

After working for 23 years I find myself unemployed for the first time. I paid high rate of tax for most of that time. I am not entitled to any mortgage interest relief, medical card, fuel allowances etc because my partner is working. Believe me €204 does not go very far - particularly if you are saving for the event that you might not secure work before your entitlement runs out. Add food, medical bills, household bills, mortgage, clothes, travel, cost of job applications, emergencies.

I think €204 is what is needed to stay afloat (certainly in Dublin). It is unfair being treated as a married couple (just living together) for sw purposes, but being penalised for tax purposes by not being allowed to share tax credits. It makes me sick to see others claim rentallowance, lone parents, all other allowances when they might be working part-time, have a partner living with them or just be making no effort to work.

Bring in inspectors, private detectives, cash rewards for those who report sw fraudsters. Create stricter criteria for claiming re greater evidence of jobseeking, attending interviews, seeking feedback etc. Role on the public sector pay cuts (my partner will be effected but I'd rather that than a second redundancy at our house).
Click to expand...

Here is a person whom I immediately respect- they have seen both sides literally. I agree with everything in this persons post & it should be read over & over by all the do gooders who beleive that the system is fair.

The most realistic & valid post on this topic
 
It is my understanding that the state gives persons (without means) on social welfare €24 a week to feed and cloth a child. Dont know about anyone else, but that does not seem a lot.

Your views!!
 
theengineer said:
It is my understanding that the state gives persons (without means) on social welfare €24 a week to feed and cloth a child. Dont know about anyone else, but that does not seem a lot.

Your views!!
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Your right. How would 24 euro feed & clothe a child? Most people would spend more per week on dog food for their dog.
 
Social Welfare is always a difficult political problem.. clearly we can't afford to pay excessive amounts but we don't want to leave some people penniless. Charities have to take up any shortfall.. and they will definitely say that many people have major problems simply existing.

Some problems in my view is that one can't even claim social welfare without an address... sick or what.

People would be happy if there was more of a crackdown.. I believe there will be. Already people are on weekly signing I think, up from monthly and into bank accounts, now it's only collect in the post office and sign weekly. This helps.

Social welfare people have been known to park around certain places looking for claimants going to work. I was stopped at a police checkpoint when driving and Revenue were there, checking Diesel but also PAYE numbers etc.

I feel some people get too much... clearly the economic benefit of rent allowance is huge, and usually represents more than that individual could earn... people getting 200 UA, but also 900 rent, other allowances, health card, it adds up to more than a full time wage at minimum wage.. so that's wrong (imo) and can't be afforded long term.

So, should we go back to every man for himself?

We have to say that maybe 3% of people genuinely need long term assistance... but many more people come from broken backgrounds or are uneducated which does make life difficult for them.. they should also be assisted. In a downturn there would be many who are let go.. we would have to pay a reduced payment to them too. (It should be a reduced payment to everybody, but with extra benefits for the very needy).

Mortgage relief should not be offered in my view... the house should be sold at market rates to someone else, even when massively down on equity. A case could be made but that would be the bitterest pill to swallow for most Irish people.

It is very simple.. it is only those not claiming that pay for everything... if there are too many claiming and not enough paying something must give... it's not fair to rack up generational debt which must be repaid over decades...

Cheers
 
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Pretty much every government set payment or salary is too high, from social welfare to Brian Cowen's salary.

Social welfare probably could be edged downwards in a controlled and unpainful fashion if and only if other state set incomes were reduced, including minimum wage.

When I hear about government officials who not completely but in large part are overpaid to the tune of 20-30% talking about cracking down on social welfare fraud my hypocrite radar starts to go off, chances are their overpay vastly exceeds the complete income of the "fraudsters" they crack down on.
 
too much? Yes. Its a bloody disgrace.
I know of one person who had been working half time for a number of years. He gave up his job two months ago to go on social welfare. He worked out, that he was much better off..he has 2 kids and girlfriend etc.

I bet he is out working part-time still though..on the quiet.

We should report this when we suspect/see this happening...they are completely screwing you and I.
I wouldnt be a bit shy reporting them.

Contact details:
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/ContactUs/Pages/reportfraud.aspx
 
Bored with public service bashing, so pick on those in receipt of social welfare.

This "I know of a distant cousins, wife's sister etc etc" heresay nonsense, to try and tar everybody with the same brush is becoming ridiculous.
 
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