Is the Irish Financial Services industry male-dominated?

[RainyDay]

I shared a restaurant with a lunch for 25-30 hosted by the Irish office of one of the leading insurers. From the bits of the speeches I could pick up, it was a 'thanks for your business during this very good year' lunch for their brokers.

But it was exclusively male attendance. One of the 'ladies who lunch' at another table who asked 'Why are there no women?' was swiftly told to mind her own business - Not a great tactic given that they had just be shouting out the name of the insurer.

Is this lack of gender balance typical?

 

[DrMoriarty]

My wife worked in AIB for a number of years and found it very much 'girls downstairs' (behind the counters/dealing with the public), 'boys only' upstairs in the corridors of power...

 

[joe sod]

Yes finance and alot of other areas are male dominated. The simple reason is that most women don't take much interest in discussing financial and economic issues. Most of the contributions on this site are from males. So its not the age old agenda that women are being excluded they simply don't take an interest by and large.

 

[D8Lady]

True story. A female friend started in college to study accounting. One of the first welcoming speeches they heard was that women have more points in leaving cert, do better in the college exams but will be the last to be employed. Welcome to accounting.

From what I have observed first hand is that men will do golf, drink, talk football & other fake camraderie activities in order to get ahead. They have more free time to indulge in networking. Women will tend to just get on with the job & don't B.S. as much. At meetings, women talked over & not listened to. But also they tend to not speak up as much nor put themselves forward & apply for more senior positions even though they are well capable of doing the job.

Much like the lady at lunch who asked the question, anyone asking tough questions will receive a sharp rebuke.

Many companies give lip service to equality however, in practice, they are likely to hire people just like themselves - so a self perpetuating culture is established. It locks out new talent. Those that are hired are sidelined.

But I partially agree with Joe Sod - many women do not take as much interest in finace as they should.

 

[RainyDay]

My wife worked in AIB for a number of years and found it very much 'girls downstairs' (behind the counters/dealing with the public), 'boys only' upstairs in the corridors of power...

While this wouldn't be hugely surprising, the lunch attendees weren't the board of the insurer. They were (I guess) the senior sales & marketing teams of the insurer, plus the senior bodies from the brokers. Surely given this audience, you'd expect to have a spattering of female attendees?

Having attended various industry groups (social & working) in other industries (IT, healthcare, retail), I've never seen an exclusively-male audience like this.

 

[DrMoriarty]

...a spattering of female attendees?

You sure have a way with collective nouns, RainyDay!

Maybe they were all at home, cooking a nice Sunday dinner for their husbands?

 

[extopia]

Hey Rainyday it's a good question.

I think it should be answered by the AAM women. Financial Services is a lucrative career option but according to Revenue Statistics there are only 1500 women in Ireland earning over 100k. It shows that we have a long way to go yet.

 

[RainyDay]

but according to Revenue Statistics there are only 1500 women in Ireland earning over 100k.

Do you have the equivalent figure for men handy?

 

[extopia]

I was referring to an article on front page of the Irish Times early last week.

According to this revenue statistical report for 2002 [broken link removed] there were a total of 31,526 taxpayers earning 100k or above. Of these, 4,035 were single income male, 1,570 were single income female, and 25,921 married couples both earning.

There does not seem to be a breakdown of M/F earnings within the Married Both Earning category, unfortunately. I would imagine the high earner is usually male.

Together, these households earned 37% of all taxable income and paid 62.7% of all income tax collected. These figures suggest that the notion that high earners pay less tax is false, wouldn't you agree?

 

[daveirl]

Hey Rainyday it's a good question.

I think it should be answered by the AAM women. Financial Services is a lucrative career option but according to Revenue Statistics there are only 1500 women in Ireland earning over 100k. It shows that we have a long way to go yet.

And I bet that many of those 1,500 don't have kids. To be honest I don't think this will ever change, if I took a year out of my job between the ages of 30 and 40 I'd expect it would have a severe impact on my progress within the company. This is exactly what happens when a woman has a child. Extremely unfortunate but I can't see a viable solution.

Well maybe up paternity leave to the same amount of time as maternity leave but then I'd say a lot of men wouldn't take the full thing?

 

[CCOVICH]

I shared a restaurant with a lunch for 25-30 hosted by the Irish office of one of the leading insurers. From the bits of the speeches I could pick up, it was a 'thanks for your business during this very good year' lunch for their brokers.

From my experience of the insurance industry, there wouldn't be many female brokers. I used to work for a major life insurer, and most of the salesforce was male, but some of the inhouse salesforce was female. That said, there were plenty of females in senior positions in the wider company.

I am still working within financial services, and there are plenty of females working alongside me and in higher positions. The one exception are the traders-a male dominated area. I think that male personalities are better suited to occupations like broking and dealing in financial services. No empirical evidence, just my own (informed) opinion.

 

[podgerodge]

And I bet that many of those 1,500 don't have kids. To be honest I don't think this will ever change, if I took a year out of my job between the ages of 30 and 40 I'd expect it would have a severe impact on my progress within the company. This is exactly what happens when a woman has a child. Extremely unfortunate but I can't see a viable solution.

I don't agree that it's extremely unfortunate. Having a child is a choice. Why shouldn't the women who choose career over kids earn more money? why shouldn't the men who stay late in the office while the working mothers go home early earn more money? My wife has done better than she would have if she took time out to have children. So she earns more than women who spend half their time working and the other half thinking about the kids.

 

[extopia]

I think that male personalities are better suited to occupations like broking and dealing in financial services. No empirical evidence, just my own (informed) opinion.

Just be aware that some people would say that a set of beliefs with no empirical evidence behind them amounts to prejudice.

 

[RainyDay]

I don't agree that it's extremely unfortunate. Having a child is a choice. Why shouldn't the women who choose career over kids earn more money? why shouldn't the men who stay late in the office while the working mothers go home early earn more money? My wife has done better than she would have if she took time out to have children. So she earns more than women who spend half their time working and the other half thinking about the kids.

Diversity is important for all workplaces. A workplace where unpaid overtime is constantly expected is not a very healthy environment for anyone. A workplace full of no-kid parents walking all over each other to climb the corporate ladder will almost certainly burn out a significant percentage of the staff. Parenting brings with it a certain maturity and outlook on life which is important in taking the big picture view.

 

[Vanilla]

So she earns more than women who spend half their time working and the other half thinking about the kids.

Yes, I agree completely. People with personal relationships of any kind, whether that be with family, children or spouses have no right to expect the same level of remuneration or prospects as those without as certainly those pesky personal relationships interfere with keeping ones mind on the job.

 

[annR]

I'd be interested to know what the gender balance on askaboutmoney.com is but you can't do polls unfortunately.

 

[CCOVICH]

Just be aware that some people would say that a set of beliefs with no empirical evidence behind them amounts to prejudice.

Fine. I can live with that. I'm basing my views on personal experience of working within the industry, that's good enough for me. There are of course exceptions, and I'm more than aware that you can't paint everyone with the same brush. If people want to assume I'm prejudiced even though I've formed a view based on first hand experience, that's fine by me, but I would challenge them to post facts to suggest that I'm wrong.

Let me just clarify/qualify my views by saying this: if I was hiring for a position in financial services, I would hire the best person for the job. Just because I think that in general men are more suited to certain jobs than women (and vice versa obviously), doesn't mean that I don't believe that always holds true.

 

[Sherman]

Rainyday, I have to say that is one of the most condescending things I've heard in a long time.

I'm sick of people who have children claiming they've somehow managed to unlock the secrets to happiness and the universe just by popping out a few sprogs.

I know plenty of people for whom having children has most definitely not resulted in them being happier, healthier, or more mature. And it certainly hasn't helped them in seeing 'the big picture'.

 

[Humpback]

They were (I guess) the senior sales & marketing teams of the insurer, plus the senior bodies from the brokers. Surely given this audience, you'd expect to have a spattering of female attendees?

I presume you mean that because there were sales people, there should be women. Maybe it's just because cheerleeding hasn't become a major aspect of our school sports regimes yet. [broken link removed]

 

[Cahir]

My workplace is extremely male dominated. Most of the time I'm the only female at a meeting or course or conference. Sometimes I think it's an advantage because everyone knows who you are but mostly it's a disadvantage as the men tend to group together and ignore you/treat you differently.