At what point is it not worthwhile to work fulltime & pay childcare?

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buzybee

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Due back at work soon. I will be paying nearly 1000 for two children aged nearly 1 and 3. The childminder is very good so I don't mind paying her.

My question is: at what point is it not worthwhile to work fulltime and pay childcare? I am in a civil service job, earning 25K pa. I take home 400 a week. Childcare is 250, petrol and parking another 50. (I bring my own lunch to work). Therefore I should have about 100 euro for working the five days. I would like to work 4 days because it might be easier to fit in housework and be less of a mad dash. However, DH would prefer me to work the 5 days because kids are in a routine, and the extra 20 euro for the fifth day would pay towards petrol/parking.

I would just like to ask others: would you bother working the 5th day for such a small compensation? or is it wasteful to leave the extra few euros after me when we are in a recession.

Tks again
 
For us its a question of balance and the old trade off of what your priorities (opportunity cost) are?

In simple terms Iv a co-worker who pays a cleaner 3 hours a week which she feels is a waste of money as she's well able to clean her house/luxury etc but as she can make more doing 3 hours grinds, she has the cleaner come in when she has the grind so in some small way she can justify having a cleaner....
 
I was earning 400 per week and to get two kids minded would have cost 300 so I gave up the job. We are all different with different views on this but my advice would be go with your gut - I am very happy with my decision but I know that minding two kids full time would drive some people to distraction. Perhaps you could take a few weeks parental leave and see how you feel after that. Good luck what ever you decide
 
Will you get a reduction in childcare costs if your children are only there 4 days? You will have a reduction in petrol & parking costs.
If you get a reduction in childcare costs, you may not be worse off financially. If this is the case, I would go for it.
 
The kids will not always be in creche/playschool. Time will come when they will not need such intensive minding as they will be in school etc. You are however giving up a state job that many would kill for with a good pension that you are not likely to get again. Just another thought. I know its nice to be around the kids when they are young but think for your future and theirs.
 
Are you sure that you would be happy staying at home all day every day with 2 young children, some would kill for the opportunity while others would run.

A friend was in a similar situation a few years ago, I managed to persuade to take the 14 weeks parental first but still went ahead and is still the stay at home parent 5 years on.

I was lucky enough to be part time with very flexible hours when my kids were very young but I needed that escape
 
I never said anything about giving up my state job. My question was about at what point would a person cut back on hours. Eg. would a person do a full days work for 40 Euro?? for 20 Euro?? after childcare and travel costs.

I want to keep working some few days. However, I questioned whether the five days is too much, with two young children, when I am only getting 20 Euro for the fifth day. Also, the fifth day could make the working week very tiring, trying to fit in housework, shopping etc. (I am nearly 40 years old and I have gradually got more tired from full time working over the years). I am thinking about whether I should forego the 20 Euro, stay at home and catch up on housework, to free up some time at weekends. Of course employing a cleaning lady would be a laugh, as the cleaning lady would probably be getting more money than me.

If I continue to do the five days in work, I will have to spend each evening doing housework after kids are in bed, so I will have no free time to watch TV etc. The four days would make the working routine more relaxed, and give me a bit more free time.

I always worked full time, and I went back to work full time after my first child. I worked full time through my second pregnancy. I am quite nervous and a little guilty about leaving money after me when jobs are so scarce at the moment.
 
I would do the 4 day if I was you, if you can afford it. If you just take parental leave for the day you are taking off and see how you get on then you can stop whenever you want and go back on the 5 day. You will benefit greatly from the extra day at home in my opinion. If you are thinking about doing a 4 day that doesn't involve parental leave just keep in mind that in the current climate and for the foreseable future you would be unlikely to get the 5 day week back if you needed it. I wish I was in your position I would do the 4 day in a flash! I work full time with two kids and find it much harder than when there was only the one. It also get harder when they get to school age in my opinion. Go for it, you won't regret it!
 
buzybee said:
when I am only getting 20 Euro for the fifth day.
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Are you sure that that's the full story? Are there not other benefits accruing - e.g. pension/superannuation, holidays, PRSI contributions etc. that should be factored in? Employment is not always just about the money you get into your hand at the end of the day/week/month.
 
buzybee said:
I never said anything about giving up my state job. My question was about at what point would a person cut back on hours. Eg. would a person do a full days work for 40 Euro?? for 20 Euro?? after childcare and travel costs.

I want to keep working some few days. However, I questioned whether the five days is too much, with two young children, when I am only getting 20 Euro for the fifth day. Also, the fifth day could make the working week very tiring, trying to fit in housework, shopping etc. (I am nearly 40 years old and I have gradually got more tired from full time working over the years). I am thinking about whether I should forego the 20 Euro, stay at home and catch up on housework, to free up some time at weekends. Of course employing a cleaning lady would be a laugh, as the cleaning lady would probably be getting more money than me.

If I continue to do the five days in work, I will have to spend each evening doing housework after kids are in bed, so I will have no free time to watch TV etc. The four days would make the working routine more relaxed, and give me a bit more free time.

I always worked full time, and I went back to work full time after my first child. I worked full time through my second pregnancy. I am quite nervous and a little guilty about leaving money after me when jobs are so scarce at the moment.
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Can your husband not help with that?
 
My husband already does the morning drop off at minders. I get baby up and fed, and he gets toddler up. He also arrives home before me and gets started on the dinner in the evening. He does all outside work e.g. cutting lawns, sweeping leaves etc. Each evening I might do washing/ironing, wash a floor, hoover or tidy. The aim is to keep the house fairly clean so I don't spend hours on housework at weekends.

Regarding the pension entitlements, hols etc: I joined Civil Service 5 years ago, at 35. Even if I work full time to 65, I will only have 30 yrs service. The Clerical Officer is paid 35K at the highest point on the scale. I calculated that I would only get a little more than the state contributory pension even if I work full time for the next 25 years. I would be entitled to the state contributory pension anyway, as I have already been working full time for over 20 years. If I spend 10 years working at the 4 day week, it would be the equivalent of 8 years of full time service, so I am not losing much by doing the 4 days.

Regarding hols, I would still get the 20 days hols if I use parental leave. I would be allowed work up just over a day flexi a month. I can work up 1.5 days flexi a month with the full time work.

Regarding going on a 4 day week and not ever being allowed back on the 5 days: I would be 52 yrs old when the parental leave would cease. By the time the kids would be able for a job, and need less minding I would be 58. I would hope not to go back on 5 days at 58.

Also DH is a few years older than me and is in a state job with 40K. He could be retired when I am 58 and I may find working the 5 days impractical if he is at home fulltime.

It is just that I want to try and continue working a good few days as long as I can, because I know that if I get the taste of a 4 or 4.5 day week, I may not want to ever to the 5 days again.
 
buzybee said:
Regarding the pension entitlements, hols etc: I joined Civil Service 5 years ago, at 35. Even if I work full time to 65, I will only have 30 yrs service.
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I'm not really au fait with Civil/Public Service pensions but is there an option to buy back service or something like that?

http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/

The Clerical Officer is paid 35K at the highest point on the scale.
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Would you not be looking towards promotion above CO as part of your career plan?

If your analysis is correct and you are ultimately working the 5th day for a return of €20 and have some option for not working this instead then that simplifies the question a lot and nobody else can really answer it for you.
 
I think your parental leave would be used up a lot sooner than you think. How do you work out that it will last you til your 52? Its my understanding that you get something like 72 parental leave days per child - is that not the case?
 
I have two children, nearly 1 and 3. The parental leave is a maximum of 14 weeks per child per year. The parental leave finishes when children are 12 or 13. So as long as I stay inside the 14 weeks per year, I could continue to take parental leave until children are 12 or 13. I would only be taking one day a week, which would use up 10 weeks of parental leave a year. I may even work full time for part of the year, which would mean that I would be taking even less than 10 weeks parental leave a year.

I know of others at work who have 2 children and are able to use the parental leave to work a 3 day week all the time. In effect they are working part time, but when children are over the 12 or 13, they can revert to full time if they want.
 
buzybee said:
I have two children, nearly 1 and 3. The parental leave is a maximum of 14 weeks per child per year. The parental leave finishes when children are 12 or 13.
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Are you referring to something other than the statutory Parental Leave scheme because that only allows for leave until the child is 8 years old unless there are certain extenuating circumstances and the TOTAL amount of leave is 14 weeks per child.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...itions/leave_and_holidays/parental_leave.html
 
4 day versus 5 day week

Hi Busybee
I am in a similar situation to you family wise. I have a one year old and a 3 year old. I am working a four-day week and find it makes a huge difference to the quality of life for the whole family. On a weekly basis, it means that we have more time to do nice things at the weekend, without being under too much pressure to do things like the grocery shopping. It also means that you have an extra day to do jobs that crop up like getting the car serviced, banking etc. So your 'day off' isn't a day off, but it makes the weekend more pleasant for everyone. I think it is also good for the kids having an extra day in the week at home.

Its not a financial decision for us, but on the quality of life side, I would say that it makes a big difference. I think myself that a 3-day week would be ideal, but that's not available to me at the moment :)
 
My so called family and work life balance friendly multinational employer has refused to allow me to take 1 day a week parental leave (must be in a block) and no part time allowed either. There must be thousands of women in the same situation. Where are these flexi jobs? How do I find them? Wouldn't it be great if there was some kind of network to help women with families find more family friendly jobs or at least position ourselves in a company where the jobs exist with a few to getting them in a few years. I've been in sales for 10 years surely that's of enough value to someone to let me have a day off during the week, as you say not to really a day off but just to catch up . . .
 
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