Why do the English Still tell Irish Jokes.

[Latrade]

Pakis is a term thats construed by some as offencive, but in fairness I don't see any difference between that and calling a Scottish person a Scot.

It's a term construed by the majority as being offensive. It's the same as referring to a Scottish person as a "jock" or Irish as a "paddy", not the example you gave. It is a shortening of the country name, but its sole use was as a derogatory and demeaning term.

Why didn't poster also use "itai" or "paddy"?

 

[VOR]

Why didn't poster also use "itai" or "paddy"?

Mick was already in the joke and Paddy was laying tarmac.

 

[Bill Struth]

One comeback that will stop all jokes about bombings is to respond along the following lines and be deadpan serious as you do it - works every time. Saw it used to great effect by a friend who while illegally parking a Dublin registered car in the UK was approached by a police officer who made a joke that it wouldnt be good to illegally park an Irish registered car due to bomb scares etc. [I am not expressing any politican views, so do take anything from the below - just a great way of stopping a joker in his tracks].

...dont get the joke.....dont see the connection between bombs and Ireland?.....sure we're a neutral country who's never fought in any wars...

Joker usually responds with a reference to the troubles.

....what have the troubles got to do with Ireland?....isnt Northern Ireland part of the UK?......one bunch of British citizens bombing another bunch of British citizens...whats that got to do with me, I'm from Dublin [insert other locations as appropriate]...we're not into this bombing our fellow citizens stuff... shame you Brits cant get along with one another.....

A man old enough to be my father once told me to f off back to my 'own country' for having the cheek to beep my northern reg'd car after he nearly ran me off the road...

Relation of yours?

 

[MrMan]

It's a term construed by the majority as being offensive. It's the same as referring to a Scottish person as a "jock" or Irish as a "paddy", not the example you gave. It is a shortening of the country name, but its sole use was as a derogatory and demeaning term.

Why didn't poster also use "itai" or "paddy"?

But it is the shortening of a word, not a nickname, how can people be truly offended by that?

 

[BetsyClark]

The sortened version of Pakistani was used as a battle cry by racist neo-nazi organisations in England, and as such, in the UK in particular, it has negatvie connotations and is not used to describe people from Pakistan except by the ignorant or deliberately offensive.

 

[MandaC]

An Indian friend of mine takes grave offence to the P word. I don't think it is just as simple as a shortened version of people from Pakistan. An Indian is not from Pakistan anyway, so why call them that.

Also, the same way as the Romanian people object to all the Roma being labelled Romanians and giving them a bad name.

 

[Caveat]

I agree - but it isn't always clear or clear cut.

For instance, however it sounds, paki shop, when used to refer to a typical suburban Asian run shop that sells almost everything, is in fairly common use among the reasonably sensible white population the UK as far as I can see. The same people would never dream of using the term in any other way though.

Jap when referring to cars, Jap cars, seems to be acceptable too - but used otherwise it would be offensive.

Polack is a common term of abuse in the US for people of Polish descent - however it is a perfectly innocent word in Polish (albeit with a different spelling) simply meaning a 'Polish person'. That Poles may not offended by it doesn't matter though really - as has been said, it all comes down to intent and polack has arisen in English as a term of abuse.

Nigger and queer can have similarly complicated usage in practice but cleverly, both groups referenced have managed to partially usurp the respective terms. Again, doesn't mean they are not offensive terms though.

Rather bizarrely then, a black man for example could conceivably cause offence to a white person by using the term nigger. What a semantically complicated world we live in.

 

[Purple]

Nigger and queer can have similarly complicated usage in practice but cleverly, both groups referenced have managed to partially usurp the respective terms. Again, doesn't mean they are not offensive terms though.

Rather bizarrely then, a black man for example could conceivably cause offence to a white person by using the term nigger. What a semantically complicated world we live in.

Strangest of all is that Nigger started as a term of abuse toward Indian people.

 

[MrMan]

An Indian friend of mine takes grave offence to the P word. I don't think it is just as simple as a shortened version of people from Pakistan. An Indian is not from Pakistan anyway, so why call them that.

Also, the same way as the Romanian people object to all the Roma being labelled Romanians and giving them a bad name.

That's not the same thing because i was referring to calling a person from Pakistan a 'Paki' not someone from another country.

 

[MrMan]

The sortened version of Pakistani was used as a battle cry by racist neo-nazi organisations in England, and as such, in the UK in particular, it has negatvie connotations and is not used to describe people from Pakistan except by the ignorant or deliberately offensive.

I'm sure Neo-Nazi's used plenty of terms including blacks and Paki's but they were describing groups that they hated. I think it is a little thin skinned to be offended by the word and i wonder do the bleeding hearts get more offended by it than anyone from Pakistan.

 

[MrMan]

For a generation large swathes of Irish men went to England and they were perceived, rightly or wrongly, as Paddy the Navvy or Mick the Bomber. When someone has a strong Irish accent they may come across as naive, uninformed and unintelligent rather the shrewd people that they often are. This combined with rampant alcohol abuse has helped create a stereotype of an Irish person in Britain.

Nowadays, Irish political and current affairs serve to perpetuate that stereotype. One viewing of the RTE Nine O'Clock news is viewed as parody by many in England. From the amateurish production of the programme to the personal appearance of the politicians ( minister for health & former minister for defence) not to mention the endemic political corruption, handling of sexual abuse by priests, grotesquely inflated public sector pay & social welfare rates. I often cringe when I think of English people tuning in.

Having had personal experience of the English approach to someone from Ireland, the initial ' friendly' response is a wistful look and some reference to alcohol consumption / abuse, which I find irritating and ( largely unintentionally) pejorative.

Collectively, I have found that Ireland is viewed as a bit of a joke really - a mickey-mouse country where you go for a break from real life hence the proliferation of Irish jokes.

Why be embarrassed though? If one group of people completely underestimate another then that is indicative of a poor mindset or maybe a sense of insecurity. I'm sure many British would like to consider us a dimwitted country folk, but I for one don't need Britains validation to prove that I am an intelligent capable person.
For every politician over here that makes you cringe, there is one in Britain, ditto for corruption etc.
We often perceive the Americans as loud and stupid, yet they are probably the most advanced country in the World and the No.1 (ish) super power.

 

[MandaC]

For a generation large swathes of Irish men went to England and they were perceived, rightly or wrongly, as Paddy the Navvy or Mick the Bomber. When someone has a strong Irish accent they may come across as naive, uninformed and unintelligent rather the shrewd people that they often are. This combined with rampant alcohol abuse has helped create a stereotype of an Irish person in Britain.

Nowadays, Irish political and current affairs serve to perpetuate that stereotype. One viewing of the RTE Nine O'Clock news is viewed as parody by many in England. From the amateurish production of the programme to the personal appearance of the politicians ( minister for health & former minister for defence) not to mention the endemic political corruption, hadling of sexual abuse by priests, grotesquely inflated public sector pay & social welfare rates. I often cringe when I think of English people tuning in.

Having had personal experience of the English approach to someone from Ireland, the initial ' friendly' response is a wistful look and some reference to alcohol consumption / abuse, which I find irritating and ( largely unintentionally) pejorative.

Collectively, I have found that Ireland is viewed as a bit of a joke really - a mickey-mouse country where you go for a break from real life hence the proliferation of Irish jokes.

Agree with most of the above.

Went on a training course to the UK, maybe about 10 years ago. Firstly, I was asked if I felt safe in Dublin (from the bombs?), to which I explained there was probably more risk (if any) of them being bombed.

Secondly, we went for a drink and they were surprised I did not drink Guinness.

It was a Countryish part of England. They were not being smart or rude in any way, just that was their preception of Ireland.

 

[MrMan]

Agree with most of the above.

Went on a training course to the UK, maybe about 10 years ago. Firstly, I was asked if I felt safe in Dublin (from the bombs?), to which I explained there was probably more risk (if any) of them being bombed.

Secondly, we went for a drink and they were surprised I did not drink Guinness.

It was a Countryish part of England. They were not being smart or rude in any way, just that was their preception of Ireland.

I was asked recently at a training meeting in the UK if there was still a wall between North & South, and he was not joking. I just said it came down years ago. If another nations perception of us is ridiculously off kilter then so what, it only becomes a problem if British people with brains and in positions of power to bring employment here have the same perception.

 

[Capt. Beaky]

An Indian friend of mine takes grave offence to the P word. I don't think it is just as simple as a shortened version of people from Pakistan. An Indian is not from Pakistan anyway, so why call them that.

Also, the same way as the Romanian people object to all the Roma being labelled Romanians and giving them a bad name.

Most of the "Indian" restaurants that I know - both here and across the water - are Pakastani staffed or run. Lots of Indians would tell Pakistani/Bangladeshi jokes. Just as Dubs would tell Culshee jokes, Culshees tell Dub jokes. It's the way of the world.

 

[Bill Struth]

For a generation large swathes of Irish men went to England and they were perceived, rightly or wrongly, as Paddy the Navvy or Mick the Bomber. When someone has a strong Irish accent they may come across as naive, uninformed and unintelligent rather the shrewd people that they often are. This combined with rampant alcohol abuse has helped create a stereotype of an Irish person in Britain.

Nowadays, Irish political and current affairs serve to perpetuate that stereotype. One viewing of the RTE Nine O'Clock news is viewed as parody by many in England. From the amateurish production of the programme to the personal appearance of the politicians ( minister for health & former minister for defence) not to mention the endemic political corruption, handling of sexual abuse by priests, grotesquely inflated public sector pay & social welfare rates. I often cringe when I think of English people tuning in.

Having had personal experience of the English approach to someone from Ireland, the initial ' friendly' response is a wistful look and some reference to alcohol consumption / abuse, which I find irritating and ( largely unintentionally) pejorative.

Collectively, I have found that Ireland is viewed as a bit of a joke really - a mickey-mouse country where you go for a break from real life hence the proliferation of Irish jokes.

What a strange thing to say.

 

[Mpsox]

I was asked recently at a training meeting in the UK if there was still a wall between North & South, and he was not joking. I just said it came down years ago. If another nations perception of us is ridiculously off kilter then so what, it only becomes a problem if British people with brains and in positions of power to bring employment here have the same perception.

There is an incredible ignorence about Ireland over there, being a Cork man, when I lived over there I did get fed up about being asked if the bombings were bad where I lived.

Currently my manager is English and based over there, it took us about 2 years to convince him that we were "different". In particuler, every time he used the phrase "the mainland", we'd ask him why he was talking about France. One day, he was over here, had a few hours to spare and went to Kilmainham and he admits that until then, he never really understood what we were on about

Having said that, most English I've met like Ireland and the Irish, which, given what some of our countrymen have done over there in our name, is a minor miracle. It's amazing how many English actually have Irish roots. I remember talking to some English friends after Barbara Windsor traced her roots in "Who do you think you are? "back to a famine graveyard in Cork and they were quite stunned

 

[Latrade]

I'm sure Neo-Nazi's used plenty of terms including blacks and Paki's but they were describing groups that they hated. I think it is a little thin skinned to be offended by the word and i wonder do the bleeding hearts get more offended by it than anyone from Pakistan.

I think it a little ignorant to not see that some words only exist as a means of being derogatory. Whether or not they entered the general lexicon is irrelevant. That was in different times with different generations. Fortunately we moved on.

It's not to say I'd jump up and down at every word, it's just "paki" is and always was a derogatory word used generally for anyone from that region.

 

[annR]

It's a term construed by the majority as being offensive. It's the same as referring to a Scottish person as a "jock" or Irish as a "paddy", not the example you gave. It is a shortening of the country name, but its sole use was as a derogatory and demeaning term.

Why didn't poster also use "itai" or "paddy"?

Latrade I was talking about the jokes that are commonly made that's why I used the term, that's what they're referred to in the jokes. The Austalians call Italians wogs by the way. I'm not sure if they use the term paddy or just call us Irish.

 

[MrMan]

I think it a little ignorant to not see that some words only exist as a means of being derogatory. Whether or not they entered the general lexicon is irrelevant. That was in different times with different generations. Fortunately we moved on.

It's not to say I'd jump up and down at every word, it's just "paki" is and always was a derogatory word used generally for anyone from that region.

I know people can use the word in a derogatory way, but it is all down to tone and context.

 

[johnd]

Pakis is a term thats construed by some as offencive, but in fairness I don't see any difference between that and calling a Scottish person a Scot.

So you don't mind being called a Paddie?